Feeling like a broken record

[DarkRedComet]

Here I am again heheh, in case you see this one first, sorry for being late, crazy Xmas and new years time, back on track with everything now!!!

If nothing changes you would be dead - life is in constant change. So hopefully things do keep on changing 

I understand what you mean, but sometimes I just feel like everything stays the same you know, or that it changes so slow that I barely notice, sometimes when I think about the place I was like 3 or 4 years ago, it feels like nothing has changed, I feel mostly the same feelings of being stuck, of wanting something I cannot have, of dreaming of a world where I can be happy with a little boy, you know?

This wasn't a once off kiss I was talking about here. The boy was called Jeremiah and we had been doing a little bit of fooling around for a while - I get the time line confused by now - and it wasn't by far the only time I had stared into his eyes and, well, I wasn't wandering about anything, just simply star struck We were alone, siting on my bed, I was a teenager and he a boy. And this time around I couldn't help myself, I kissed him, lightly, once and then again while he watched on, eyes wide and surprised. Then we did something else, awkwardly, and then I profously apologized for having done something like that.

Wow, that is just.... wow
The way you describe is beautiful, I just feel like I was right there watching, and I can see the love you had for him through your words. I understand your view of it, and your need to apologize for whatever you did to/with him. But if you want my honest opinion, you did nothing wrong, I don't think you did at least. You were young, dumb and in love, a lot of people do dumb stuff in those states, isn't because you were with an younger boy that you deserve a harder punishment. I am not saying what you did was right, but you shouldn't punish yourself because of something long gone in the past, and that you did out of love and passion. Whatever you say I can promise you loved him with all you had, and that's all that matters. (insert hug emoji that I am too lazy to find)

But somehow we kept going back to it. And when I walked him home - he was afraid of the dark - we would always kiss goodnight, hidden in the last shadows before his home.

That's very powerful, he loved you as much, or even maybe more than you loved him, that's just the truth my friend.

I loved him. So much.

I know, I can see it, and that's just incredible, I wont lie a teardrop or two fell when I read that, I hope one day I can feel 1% of that again, I hope one day I can say I loved like that, that I lived like that, that I kissed a boy with passion, that I was happy for a little while. He loved you a lot too. I am sure of it. Honestly I am very jealous hahah

No, you're not supposed to forget him.

But sometimes the pain is so much that I wish that I did....

Griefs makes you feel like it's the last thing you've got left of who ever you've lost, like you cannot let go of that or you'll let go of him, too. But that is not true. My time with Jeremiah was not a time of pain and suffering though that's part of it too, and all kinds of shit, looking back to it. But more than that he showed me that I can love and be loved. That's what I want to keep and treasure, that's what honours him and our time together, not endless suffering.

But is exact that that makes me cry and suffer, the thoughts that I was loved or could have been loved, yes remembering the good moments are fantastic, but idk, doens't it bring pain too? To think all of that love one day you had now is gone? For me it does at least, and some days is just too hard to take that I want to just forget everything, it was fantastic and just perfect, but not having that.... it's just too hard.

Well, you have, then. But I get the point. Life seems awfully long when it streches out before you seemingly endlessly without love. But hold on. You have the capacity for love and happiness as well.

I hope your words are correct, I know everyone keeps saying to stop seeking for it, to stop dreaming of it and looking for it. To stop having love as the only reason for life. But for me it's just truly what it is. I was born broken and weak, I cannot survive on my own, hell I tried for a  long time. I need love to survive, I need someone by my side, a smile on the dark of the night, a laugh on the cold days, a cough on the harsh moments. I need that to live, I just need it.

It's not about stopping loving someone, it's about accepting change and the transitory nature of life, accepting growing up. If I were to hold on to the way things were, trying to be with a man the way I was with a boy, I would destroy the relationship. Letting go of the boy that was, letting him become the man he ought to grow to - that is an act of love, too.

I understand your words and the concept, but I don't think I can do that, I am the kind of person that stops reading the book before the ending because I don't want the story to end, the kind of person to not finish series, the kind of person that doesn't want to grow up or change, or others to do that too. It's just how I always was and probably always will be. Of course, if I ever stop loving him, or he stop loving me, I would let him go, I am not the kind of person to keep someone against their will, but I will also give all of me and more to keep that relationship, even after he grows up and is a man, because to my heart he will always be my little boy, that's how I see the boy I once loved, how I see a lot of my friends. Forever boys, even if they don't look and act like it.

Sometimes that's the way the story goes. I don't think it'll happen to me - though who knows! - but some boylovers have continued the romantic and sexual relationship even as the boy grows up. And for sure I still see the boy in Chap, perhaps it was too much to say "the spark is gone", the little boy in him peeks through and smiles at me sometimes, but the man he is cannot feel the way the boy did.

You deserve that as much or even more than everyone out there, I hope you can find it, you deserve it! You're a really good person and i'm sure you would love and care for him deeply.

And honestly, that's a lot more about him than you, "the man he is cannot feel the way the boy did", he changed and doesn't feel the same anymore, and that's okay, that's fair, that does happen.... But that's on him, not on you, you're not the one that changed and stopped loving, you're not the one that gave up, and that's all that matters, you tried your best, and if he didn't, he simply didn't deserve you, and there's someone even better out there for you!

Read the book! It's so much better!

If you can promise me in the end he doens't go marry a random lady I will lol.

And also kind of a cautionary tale. Neither Elio nor Oliver were able to fully move on from their perfect summer and that wasn't good for either of them. I would never wish that on myself and less on any of my boys.

That's what I don't understand about it.... They were happy, they had it all, everything they wanted, everything was perfect, why in the actual hell wouldn't they keep together? My smooth brain cannot understand that, if you have everything you wanted, FUCKING KEEP IT MAAANNNN. Sorry hahah, but that really makes me sad and agry to think, I could never do that.

Well, I don't know, with Chap, what was he thinking, though twice can hardly be an accident. There was such undeniable attraction between us but we couldn't do anything about it, couldn't put a name to it, couldn't really act on it.

That makes my heart beat a little fast just thinking about it... It sounds so perfect, the love you had for each other was real, I can promise you that, whatever he thought about anything or not, it doesn't matter, I can promise you he felt it as much or even more than you did. And I guess that's all that matters, isn't it? I mean, even if nothing more happened, no crazy romance, you were forever loved by him, and he was forever loved by you, and even though it seem little, it is a lot, a very big lot.

With Jeremiah I was lucky. It could have been such a shit show. With Chap I was just open to love. I don't know what he needed, he has a good family and a nice father, or what he truly desired, but I was there for him, letting him near me, giving him love.

Maybe what he needed was you, maybe what he neeeded was more than a good family and a nice father figure, maybe he wanted that ecstasy of being in love, that thing it tingles even your bones. Or maybe what he needed was to be there for you too. People often say that kids are very sensitive to other people emotions and feelings, for people's true nature, maybe he inconsciously or even consciously noticed your need for love and affection, and decided to be there for you, as much as you were there for him. What is important is to never question or wonder that love, it happened, it was real, and you deserve every drop of it!!

I'm sure it sure sounds like some new age mumbo jumbo but the more I've worked through my own issues and my sexuality the more boys keep showing up in my life. But it's also a very hopefull outlook on boyloving life: love is not impossible, not even improbable.

But how? How do you work through something like that? I know a lot of people say it but I don't understand what I should do or work on, should I accept? Not accept? Try? Not try? Seek? Not seek? It is so many variables that I just don't understand when people simply say to "work on it".

Do you live as a hermit in a cave or perhaps in a barrel? If not, there are people in your life. I hope I'm not preaching too hard but if you want to make life less unfair you've got to start where you are right now. And it's okay to be terrible at it, to be lost and scared. In their time little steps become a long journey.

I mean, sure there's people in my life, but nobody I really care about, I guess that's what I mean, my parents and family are okay, but I don't really care for them that much, they're a very little part of my life, I have "friends" but nothing real, no best friend, no real friendship, just people I know really. And of course, I don't really have any boys in my life, so I just feel somewhat lost in that journey, without anyone I care about enough to try to be better. Or even what to be better at.

I don't want to ignore this but maybe it's something we could come back to later, to come up with some ideas how to involve boys in your life.

If you ever have any ideas I am all ears, as long isn't anything crazy like, become a teacher or some crazy stuff people told me before hahah, I love kids, but good god seeing little boys running around every single day? I would go crazy in no time.

I get that feeling. But you're not really able to move the planets, are you? If that is your prerequisite for love then you will never have it. And if you cannot accept that what you actually might be able to give to him is momentary, in itself insufficient and imperfect then you might never be able to give him anything.

I mean.... I never tried before.... heheheheh. But I understand your point, is less about a prerequisite for someone loving me and more about me loving someone I guess, Is not about needing it to be perfect, or needing to give him everything he need, I know he will need more than just me, more than just my love. What I mean is, I will always try my absolut best to give him everything he needs, go out of my way, even risk my life for it, because he will deserve it, because I will love him so much that nothing else will matter to me. Is not about being perfect, is about putting effort into it.

I recently found out one of YFs is struggling with depression. And all I really could do was give him hugs and foot rubs. And it fucken breaks my heart that I can't move the very foundations of earth just to make him happy... but I can't. So I love him the way I can and hope it'll somehow be a meaningful part of his life and help guide him through to happier times.

And that's what I mean, is not about being able to fix his entire life, sometimes you just can't, but the fact you're there for him, you're trying your best to make him happy and well, that's everything that matters. Yes, sometimes just isn't enough, and there's nothing you can do about it. But as long you're trying your best, I am sure he will see it and even if it hurts sometimes, the little things you do will help and shape him, will make his pain, even if just a little bit, but better. You might not be able to physically move the foundations of earth to make him happy, but when he sees that even knowing you can't you keep trying, maybe it will give him a little smile, and in that moment, that might be just enough. Might be just what he needs.

Might as well And if something strikes your interest we'll make it a bigger conversation, maybe start a new thread, get to hear what other people think.

I'm down heheh.

I really love freckles, curly hair too, and well said on how boys smell, the neck is perhaps the best part of a boy to have a sniff  I find circumcision weird at best, crime more like it, the feel of a boy's foreskin is just lovely. And you don't need to have a YF to dream about the sexual things you'd want to do to him. I've never had anal sex but there's this lovely little fellow who makes me dream about it, also because how someone described it from the boy's perspective, I would really love for him to feel that, though usually I dream more about being the object of a boy's desire. It's so sad that you have to feel bad about your sexuality, that's certainly something to explore, and for sure we can pass moral judgement on things we're unable to change but it does make more sense to judge things that we do.

Freckles are just WOOOWWW, with a nice curly hair.... yumm..., Oh yes, neck smell is fantastic, god how much I miss that smell! And I agree, I do think people shouldn't do that to boys, cut their little cute penis, who in the hell thought that was a good idea? But in the end, I am not against it I mean, I love all boys. But also agreed, tho I never felt it (cries), a little boy foreskin just looks lovely, like a little grape full of flavor and love. I don't know, I understand your point, but sometimes it makes me feel bad about it, imagining and thinking about boys in sexual ways, I think I feel better doing it for real than thinking about it? Just feels to me that you're abusing him against his will when you dream and imagine those things. (Not that I am against people that do that, by all means, is just more a me thing). And is just very hard you know? To love a little boy, it's just something very hard to accept and be okay with, and I am uncertain if I will ever be able to truly accept that. And I do agree, for things we can change we for sure need to judge, in my opinion, wanting and being like this isn't something we can ever judge, but acting on it, it's a more thin line, what is okay, what isn't okay? And okay to who? Because a lot of times boys would love it but society say it's bad, it's a very complicated thing to discuss and have a final answer.

Well refresh your imagination  Loving passionately doesn't keep us from being fools or just young and inexperienced, more like youth and passion often equal stupidity. I've read through my old diaries and gone over my time with Jeremiah a thousand times, and I cannot help now seeing the abusive elements is our relationship, seeing my mistakes, seeing how I hurt him in my passion. I don't think it makes me a bad person that I were young and unable to do better. But I wish it had been different. And I hope that when he looks back he'll remember the love rather than anything else.

I guess that is true with anyone tho, isn't a unique thing to boylovers or you, we always make mistakes when we love someone, sometimes by the simple fact that we love them so much that we want everything to be perfect and last forever. Humans are broken, weak and imperfect, but that's what makes us special and different from anything else out there. We learn with our mistakes and do better, maybe you shouldn't wish it was different, because at the time, that was perfect for you and him, even if now looking back doesn't look like it. Maybe you should wish and desire the next time it happens it's better, because that one you can act on it and change it, that one you can actually do something about it. Don't look the past as something that was inadequate, but something that was good at the time, but that next time it's gonna be even better. We need to make mistakes to be able to grow and do better, is the only way we learn.

I try to do better now. He gave me love. I cannot ever pay him back for that. The only thing I can do is to pay it forward.

Using your own words here, you already paid him back by loving him back, that's already paid, you don't own him or the world anything, but of course, love the others, love the next, as much or even more than you did him, but not for him, not for you, but for them, for the ones that need that love, the ones that need that attention and motivation. They're the ones that deserve that love.

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.

[Itumeleng]

Glad to see you back! I was afraid we might have lost you! Happy new year!

A lot to unpack here. I'll also merge our two topics, we're practically having the same conversation in two places.


Firstly, about the nature of boylove. This might simply be the way I experience it but I do suspect it's something more universal. How much do you know about how evolution works? Genes are not selected solely on the individual level but also for what is advantageous for the population. That's how someone argued minor attracted adults came to be. Populations with the "pedophile gene" survived because there were people to take care of the lost and the orphaned. I've always loved this idea, I imagine a lonely brutish caveman taking in lost boys from his tribe, loving them and teaching them to hunt and survive - boys that would have otherwise died. The very first boylover!

Anyway, that's why I think my personal experience might have something to do with all boylovers and MAAs.

When I connect with a boy it feels like magic, like a superpower. Snuggling with a boy I feel complete - or high, as if I were a drug addict and boys were heroin. But it appears to me that it's not just me, it's not just my feelings or sexual desires. The same thing seems happen to the boys, well, not all boys, but to the ones I form a connection with. They seem to be drawn to me just the same, enjoy the contact just the same.

So perhaps the same evolutionary device that created boylovers also gave boys the abilty to form strong connections with people other than their parents - seems advantegous to their survival. But boys need to grow up, grow into their own lives, grow out of their parent-child relationship, or their boy-boylover relationship. They join the tribe. They reproduce. Again, from an evolutionary point of view, all of this makes sense to me.

And it matches my experience. The magic happens with a boy - my evolutionary counterpart. And ultimately the point of the relationship is to help him outgrow me.

... Wow.  I hadn't taken this thought quite this far before  But it is what I believe. Three more points to clarify the whole picture: Evolution is messy, so this nurturing is all mixed up with sexuality and who knows what else. Doesn't matter, it's a very beautiful thing, boylove, never the less or perhaps just because. Also, as I've said, end of a boy-boylover (just like child-parent) relationship doesn't mean the end of the whole relationship. It can continue, evolve, into friendship, or equal lovers - and it should.

And finally, most importantly, I think the way our culture views MAAs and minor-adult relationships messes up the way this boyloving magic is supposed to work. We doubt ourselves, we second guess everything, even struggle not to see ourselves as monsters.


Then, loving boys

Wow, that is just.... wow
The way you describe is beautiful, I just feel like I was right there watching, and I can see the love you had for him through your words.

Cheers There's a thread abut him somewhere but I haven't found it in myself to continue it for a long time.

I understand your view of it, and your need to apologize for whatever you did to/with him.

That is the way I thought then, in the moment, it is not at all what I believe today. I was confused, afraid, everything around me had always told me that feeling that way about a boy was evil.

I am not saying what you did was right, but you shouldn't punish yourself because of something long gone in the past, and that you did out of love and passion.

Despite everything that happened before and after that kiss I don't carry guilt with me any more. Took a long time to process those experiences, those events, but I have accepted them.

But somehow we kept going back to it. And when I walked him home - he was afraid of the dark - we would always kiss goodnight, hidden in the last shadows before his home.

That's very powerful, he loved you as much, or even maybe more than you loved him, that's just the truth my friend.

I don't doubt that, I believe he did.

But is exact that that makes me cry and suffer, the thoughts that I was loved or could have been loved, yes remembering the good moments are fantastic, but idk, doens't it bring pain too? To think all of that love one day you had now is gone?

Well, it does. But pain is part of life. And love. Like I said:

"And for you, my love, I would let my heart be broken a thousand times."

Everything I ever wanted and dreamed. Everything all at once. You just depicted what I feel like 100% of the time with a single phrase....

Does that not also answer your earlier question? 

And honestly, that's a lot more about him than you, "the man he is cannot feel the way the boy did", he changed and doesn't feel the same anymore, and that's okay, that's fair, that does happen.... But that's on him, not on you, you're not the one that changed and stopped loving, you're not the one that gave up, and that's all that matters, you tried your best, and if he didn't, he simply didn't deserve you, and there's someone even better out there for you!

Well I think "it" is on the nature of my being, what I talked about boylove above. Those were feelings between a boy and a man, it's not his fault nor mine that he grows up. Of course I dream of different realities, I dream about having answered his kisses, about having taken things a step furher at some point, of him being a boy and in my arms. But I'm also really happy about him growing up and a little proud of the man he is becoming.

And also kind of a cautionary tale. Neither Elio nor Oliver were able to fully move on from their perfect summer and that wasn't good for either of them. I would never wish that on myself and less on any of my boys.

That's what I don't understand about it.... They were happy, they had it all, everything they wanted, everything was perfect, why in the actual hell wouldn't they keep together? My smooth brain cannot understand that, if you have everything you wanted, FUCKING KEEP IT MAAANNNN. Sorry hahah, but that really makes me sad and agry to think, I could never do that.

I don't know why, I mean we could blame the western culture, obviously, but in the end who really knows why things went the way they did.

The same thing with Chap. I have this grand evolutionary theory of the nature of boylove to help me understand why things seem to work the way they do, but in the end who really knows?

But the fact is it happened. Elio and Oliver were not able to keep what they had together. Chap and I were never truly able to actualize our feelings. It happened.

The suffering that comes from not accepting, not letting go, not moving on - that is one pain that can be avoided. And should be!

It sounds so perfect, the love you had for each other was real, I can promise you that, whatever he thought about anything or not, it doesn't matter, I can promise you he felt it as much or even more than you did.

[ ... ]

What is important is to never question or wonder that love, it happened, it was real, and you deserve every drop of it!!

As much as I like ponder and examine and question, and as deeply as I admit my inability to know his inner workings... What we had was good and is forever a part of our stories. There's this photograph, a couple of years ago, when Chap was growing up. He wouldn't insist on sleeping next to me anymore, or otherwise compulsively glue himself to me, but we still enjoyed being close and doing things together. This time around we were simply washing some dishes, I think I did the washing and he was rinsing and drying. And a friend of ours snaped a photo, I wish I could show it to you, the smile on his face and the way he looks at me sideways. It just tells me everything I really need to know about what we had: it was good.

I can't really share my whole life story here and even if I did some people might see it as something less than theirs. But I feel like it's been quite the ride. Behind every loss, all the pain, all the hardship there is meaning and love. If I wanted to have it easier I would also have to let go of that. I don't want to. I choose not to.

Hmm, I don't think that's something fair to say, everyone lived their life in their own way, nobody lived "more" than others or "less" than others, you lived your life, in the same way that I lived mine. You shouldn't be thrown rocks because your life wasn't good enough, or because your life was too good. Being able to share those stories and see the world trough other people's eyes is what makes this place wonderful, being able to live a thousand lifes, even if it's just for a second. If you ever wanna share your story, or anything really, I'm always all ears.

Hmm, I'm not sure you caught my intent here 

The reason I can't uplode a photo of Chap here or share all the details of my life, is security. I don't want my PSC persona to be traced back to my real life identity.

But I have shared plenty, feel free to dig around

I'm not at all sure where you got to that rock throwing, not wanting to do that at all. But I do think experience matters. A sheltered life is at least a little less lived than one full of experiences. And you can fit less in five years than you can in twenty.

... and finally:

You deserve that as much or even more than everyone out there, I hope you can find it, you deserve it!

But don't you see I have had love! More that I could ever have dreamed of, much more that what I might deserve. And even still I have love. It's everywhere 

And then onward to the bussiness of The Path - changing, growing.

I hope your words are correct, I know everyone keeps saying to stop seeking for it, to stop dreaming of it and looking for it. To stop having love as the only reason for life. But for me it's just truly what it is. I was born broken and weak, I cannot survive on my own, hell I tried for a  long time. I need love to survive, I need someone by my side, a smile on the dark of the night, a laugh on the cold days, a cough on the harsh moments. I need that to live, I just need it.

Well, they are right. Here you seem to talk about love as something you need to possess in order to survive. But that's not how love works. It's not a possession. It's action, something you do, and choose to do.

Also, give yourself some credit for having survived so far. You are not entirely weak and broken. And as long as you're alive you can keep moving forward.

But how? How do you work through something like that? I know a lot of people say it but I don't understand what I should do or work on, should I accept? Not accept? Try? Not try? Seek? Not seek? It is so many variables that I just don't understand when people simply say to "work on it".

There a quite a few things in your writing that might work as a starting point. Let's see if it takes us anywhere.

I understand your words and the concept, but I don't think I can do that, I am the kind of person that stops reading the book before the ending because I don't want the story to end, the kind of person to not finish series, the kind of person that doesn't want to grow up or change, or others to do that too. It's just how I always was and probably always will be.

Yet that is the way of life. Things end. And change.

Please don't tell yourself you cannot change, you eventually believe it and lock yourself in place. Go finish a book instead 

That's a little bit sad to think about, but I guess you're right, yet again hahahah, we do in the end die, whatever we lived fully or not, whatever we reached what we wanted, whatever we loved someone or we stayed hiding.

I suppose it is a little sad. But it's not really scary or paralyzing. I believe it is just the fleeting nature of human life and love that make it so very beautiful.

Read the book! It's so much better!

If you can promise me in the end he doens't go marry a random lady I will lol.

He does. And it so much worse, so much more painful. A brilliant book!

But perhaps you should read Kit by Alan Edward instead. I promise you will want to read the very end, too.

Oh you might have to get used to that hahahah, It's not really really on purpose, I guess it's just a trace of my personality or something, I am always 99% of the time doubting myself, doubting my thoughts, my wants and needs, doubting if I am doing the right thing or the wrong thing, doubting if it's fair to me or others, it's something that is on my mind pretty much 24/7.

Why? Or perhaps how, because I don't mean why in the sense "why are you like this" but rather "what goes on in your mind"?

I don't know, I understand your point, but sometimes it makes me feel bad about it, imagining and thinking about boys in sexual ways, I think I feel better doing it for real than thinking about it? Just feels to me that you're abusing him against his will when you dream and imagine those things. [ ... ] To love a little boy, it's just something very hard to accept and be okay with, and I am uncertain if I will ever be able to truly accept that.

Makes you feel bad to think about boys sexually? Uhhuh, that's pretty rough. How on earth do your private thoughts constitute as abuse?

Hmm, yes I agree, being able to talk about all of this is just amazing, hard to put into words, being able to feel real and loved, being able to feel like you're not crazy and alone. But I guess I want more you know?

That's what drives us humans onward, always wanting more. I think it's a good thing, to want more - or perhaps that frames it a little wrong. Hoarding things is not good. Confusing wants for needs is not good. But a passion to drive us forward, that's good.

Do you live as a hermit in a cave or perhaps in a barrel? If not, there are people in your life. I hope I'm not preaching too hard but if you want to make life less unfair you've got to start where you are right now. And it's okay to be terrible at it, to be lost and scared. In their time little steps become a long journey.

I mean, sure there's people in my life, but nobody I really care about, I guess that's what I mean, my parents and family are okay, but I don't really care for them that much, they're a very little part of my life, I have "friends" but nothing real, no best friend, no real friendship, just people I know really. And of course, I don't really have any boys in my life, so I just feel somewhat lost in that journey, without anyone I care about enough to try to be better. Or even what to be better at.

I don't want to be mean, but are you basically saying the people in your life are not important enough for you to make an effort?  You do know that putting yourself out there is an integral part of forging meaningful connections? I feel like you're waiting for your prince charming to show up before you do anything substantial. That will not take you anywhere, I'm afraid.

I understand what you mean, but sometimes I just feel like everything stays the same you know, or that it changes so slow that I barely notice, sometimes when I think about the place I was like 3 or 4 years ago, it feels like nothing has changed, I feel mostly the same feelings of being stuck, of wanting something I cannot have, of dreaming of a world where I can be happy with a little boy, you know?

Some people say PSC has pushed a change in their lifes. I hope the same will be true for you. 

I mean, I'm sure they like, just isn't the life I wanna live, I like being a boy, acting like a boy, and of course, loving boys, and I wouldn't want anything more than that. Yes I am growing up, and yes I do need to act like an "adult" a lot of times, but when I don't need to, why would I?

For me growing up, becoming an adult, has meant being able to "provide" for my boys. Well, being there for friends and other loved ones too, sure, but when looking at live from the boyloving perspective boys are kinda central. So being in a better position to do things for them is kinda important to me. And it's not mainly about money or power, it's, ugh, about understanding, experience, the ability to convey love - all of those have been "upgraded" as I've grown. So I love growing up

But it doesn't mean giving up being a boy. The boy I was is still part of me. I'm just more now.


And onward to the final part: of good and evil.

You're a really good person and i'm sure you would love and care for him deeply.

Thank you for saying that. I hope I am okay. Still there is no denying some things in my life, some of my decisions, some of my actions are not all good.

I guess that is true with anyone tho, isn't a unique thing to boylovers or you, we always make mistakes when we love someone, sometimes by the simple fact that we love them so much that we want everything to be perfect and last forever. Humans are broken, weak and imperfect, but that's what makes us special and different from anything else out there. We learn with our mistakes and do better, maybe you shouldn't wish it was different, because at the time, that was perfect for you and him, even if now looking back doesn't look like it. Maybe you should wish and desire the next time it happens it's better, because that one you can act on it and change it, that one you can actually do something about it. Don't look the past as something that was inadequate, but something that was good at the time, but that next time it's gonna be even better. We need to make mistakes to be able to grow and do better, is the only way we learn.

It's true that we all make mistakes and true that in the best of circumstances we learn from them and do better.

But it's foolish think something was perfect "at the time". It wasn't. Take the apology for my first kiss with Jeremiah. He shouldn't have had to carry my uncertainty, my fears on his shoulders, not even a part of them. Even though we stayed together for a fairly long time and did all kinds of things that fear of hurting him was always there. Alongside with lust, huh, that was something. Can you imagine me, a hormone riddled teenager, just discovering that the forbidden preadolescent landscapes of sexual debauchery were wide open in front of me? I feel like I didn't have a single straight thought in my head those years  But it wasn't a good combination. Towards the end of our relationship, if I hadn't been so consumed by lust, and so afraid of losing him, I would have been able to communicate love rather than anything else. And I think we would still be friends.

And the stakes are higher for us. The relationship between an adult and a child is not on even ground, though I was hardly more than a child myself back then. I can imagine Jeremiah's struggle and pain if he has swallowed the idea that he was sexually abused, if that is his take away from our relationship. But I hope it was love, that it is love that he remembers. And I forever wish I could have done better.

I try to do better now. He gave me love. I cannot ever pay him back for that. The only thing I can do is to pay it forward.

Using your own words here, you already paid him back by loving him back, that's already paid, you don't own him or the world anything, but of course, love the others, love the next, as much or even more than you did him, but not for him, not for you, but for them, for the ones that need that love, the ones that need that attention and motivation. They're the ones that deserve that love.[/quote]

No. Or at least it is very unlike Jeremiah got more than what he gave. And we're all in debt to one and other, it's the way life is, interconnected.

But it is in the past. I cannot change the past.

So, I try to do better now. And pay forward his love and all that I have received before and after.

I recently found out one of YFs is struggling with depression. And all I really could do was give him hugs and foot rubs. And it fucken breaks my heart that I can't move the very foundations of earth just to make him happy... but I can't. So I love him the way I can and hope it'll somehow be a meaningful part of his life and help guide him through to happier times.

And that's what I mean, is not about being able to fix his entire life, sometimes you just can't, but the fact you're there for him, you're trying your best to make him happy and well, that's everything that matters. Yes, sometimes just isn't enough, and there's nothing you can do about it. But as long you're trying your best, I am sure he will see it and even if it hurts sometimes, the little things you do will help and shape him, will make his pain, even if just a little bit, but better. You might not be able to physically move the foundations of earth to make him happy, but when he sees that even knowing you can't you keep trying, maybe it will give him a little smile, and in that moment, that might be just enough. Might be just what he needs.

What really is my best? I felt something was wrong months before he told me - and did nothing 'cause I didn't know what to do. So clearly I could have done better. But yeah, I accept that, too, with some struggle. And perhaps the next time I will be able to do better yet.

So, this is it. I don't know if this last bit seems bleak to you. But it not meant to  The point is that while not perfect things are very much getting better. All the time. I just keep wanting more


Wow, this has warped into a gigantic thread! I don't know if I've ever written a post this long on PSC.  I'm not sure if I'm exceeding the character limit for a single post! Thanks for engaging me. I'm very much having fun

So, like I said I merged the conversations, and I moved things around, not answering every line but hopefully catching all the important ideas. Feel free to pick and choose when you answer, I know this is hella long.

And I hope all of this doesn't come off as over bearing. I'm just kinda excited for our conversation

Take care, my friend.

Itu

[DarkRedComet]

Glad to see you back! I was afraid we might have lost you! Happy new year!

I'm so sorry if I made you worry! Hahah, Busy time of the year, so I wanted to make sure I would answer everything properly! Happy new year to you too, hope it's full of happiness, colors, and of course, little boys! XD

A lot to unpack here. I'll also merge our two topics, we're practically having the same conversation in two places.

Thank you a lot for that lol, It was honestly getting a little bit annoying hahah.

Firstly, about the nature of boylove.

I won't quote the whole thing since seems completely unnecessary. Hahaha, I definitely heard that theory before, and honestly I have to agree with it, or at least I want to agree with it. Until like real search is done (which I don't expect to happen any time soon because muggles), we'll have to be happy enough to the fact that it might be true or not, but either way It's just such a loving and endearing theory that it gives me a smile to think about it. Another boylover friend of mine told me about it once, and honestly it's just really beautiful. To think there's a deeper meaning behind everything, behind us and the way we think and feel and love, that we were made this way for a reason, and not for a selfish and hurtful reason, but to make the life of little boys better, to give them the love and protection they deserve and much more. Whatever is true or not, I wish it is right.

I couldn't have explained any better, the way you describe is exactly how it feels to me. It's just perfect, like a drug or addiction, like everything you wanted was right there in your arms, like everything you were supposed to be were finally there. It makes you think and feel like nothing else in the universe matters in that moment. For a long long while in my life I thought that feeling, that "boy high" was just how love was suppose to feel, was just how everyone else felt when they found someone they connected and loved and cared about it. But I was talking to a friend about it before, and the more we talked about it more it seemed to me that it just isn't the same thing. Muggles love sleeping with many people, they like having sex just because, they go out their way to betray their partners, they break up and date and kiss multiple people on a single night. It's just impossible to me that that is same feeling. That "love" and "boy high" come from the same thing. Because I couldn't ever imagine a boylover doing anything like that, I couldn't ever imagine me doing anything like that. That feeling we get from boys is so strong, so powerful, so insanely bodily felt that I am pretty sure the only ones that feel it is us. The way I describe it is that is like the feeling you had when you first felt love, but multipied a billion times. Loving boys is like that, like a first love, extremely unique, new and strong, like something you never felt before, even though you had. Something never ever fading. It feels like you never felt a better feeling in your life, and it feels like you never ever will, so you embrance and hug that feeling as close as you can, for as long as you can, trying to never let it go. I just don't believe what they call it love to be anything close to this. It just can't be. And that makes me a bit happy, to think we are allowed to feel this special, unique feeling that they will never be able to feel or understand, in that moments I think... We are kinda lucky, aren't we?

When it comes to boys, like i've talked before, I haven't had much of anything happen, so I can't necessarily agree or disagree with you. I don't really know if they feel the same, or even remotely close. I do hope they do tho, and I do agree that we do (or at least I do) seem to have some sort of boy magnet hahahah, It's like some sort of superpower, boys always seem to be attracted to me or like me. Not like in a sexual desire way, more of in a natural friendship way. They love hanging out with me, look at me, play with me. And it's not something completly normal neither, because a lot of times adults notice that affinity too and they're always somewhat surprised when their little kids cannot get their hands out of me. Very frequently people tell me that I must be a very nice person because kids just love me hahahah. In the other hand, that's very scary, I mean, having boys or kids in general around you, I'm always afraid to give the wrong look, to say the wrong thing, to do anything that raises someones eyebrow. So most of the time I ignore it, and it honestly hurts me, and I'm sure it hurts them too, but I just don't know how to handle it. Unless is a close friend or someone I really trust, if I am out or anything and a little kid passes me, looks at me or approaches me, I try my best not to look, I try my best to ignore it, to not smile back. It hurts, oh boy it hurts. But I am also afraid. The world is scary sometimes, And parents nowadays are overly protective.

Yet again I am gonna have to disagree with you, not necessarily because I think you're wrong, but more because I hope that you are. I just again, cannot accept the fact that that relationship is fated to end. That the moment that boy-boylover relationship is born is also already predestined to fail. Even tho they fail a lot of times, muggles relationships (aka marriage) is fated to be ever lasting, to never ever end. "Until death do us part" as they say. So why us, that love so much more, that love so strongly and pure and powerful, are destined to something less? Maybe you're right, and they do need to grow up, to move one and go on with their lives. Maybe they do need to join the tribe and reproduce and whatnot. But that cannot be always the case. I think, I deeply thoroughly think, that in the same way in 1 in a million muggles are born like us, a pedo, a boylover, whatever you wanna call it. I think 1 in a million boys are born just like that, faded  to not ever grow and do us part.I think the same way muggles are destined to love, so are we. Definitely much more rare and hard. But I think there's one little boy out there that will just refuse to grow, one little boy that doesn't matter how old he gets won't change his personality and his view of the world, a little boy that might look old, but will be a boy forever in heart. And I think that if we are lucky enough to meet that little boy, that that boy-boylover relationship will just not end, that will be forever lasting and perfect. I hope that at least, I truly do.

The way society see us is just deeply wrong, always was, and honestly, probably will always be. I wanna hope for a future that that won't be the case, don't get me wrong. But I just don't believe it will happen any time soon, probably not in our lifetime at least. The same way we end doubting ourself, our feelings and our love for them, most of the time being afraid to do anything about it. It messed with the little ones too, probably even more, not only because it makes them afraid of us and afraid to love us. That is the least of the problem. The big problem is when they actually do end up having those feelings and allowed themselfs to be loved. And society one day just decides to push the carpet down their feat and they hit the cold concrete floor hard. Make them belive not only that we are monsters, but that everything they felt and did was wrong and sinful, making them feel like they're themselfs monsters and dirty. Making them hate themselfs for it. I think that's the biggest problem with all of it, and what makes me the most afraid of doing anything with a boy too. Not because I might go to jail, not because I might hurt myself or the people that are close to me. But because I could hurt them, truly deeply hurt them. Make their entire life a disaster, make them hate themselfs and worse. And it's a thing completly out of our control because don't matter how good we are to them, how much we love them, society always find it's way to poision their minds.


Then, loving boys

Cheers There's a thread abut him somewhere but I haven't found it in myself to continue it for a long time.

Whaaaaaattt??? You need to both link me it and countinue!!!!!! I love hearing and reading other people's stories, even more yours that I already feel like I know it hahah, pretty please!!! (at least the first part! XD)

That is the way I thought then, in the moment, it is not at all what I believe today. I was confused, afraid, everything around me had always told me that feeling that way about a boy was evil.
Despite everything that happened before and after that kiss I don't carry guilt with me any more. Took a long time to process those experiences, those events, but I have accepted them.

That makes me happier to know, I thought you still felt that way about him. I hope you know how much you mattered to him and how much love you gave to him, and that he gave to you too!. If you ever second guess yourself about him or anyone else try to remember that, try to remember the smile on their pretty little faces, try to remember the look in those beautiful big eyes. try to remember how warm and soft the hugs they give are. They just don't lie you know, doesn't matter what society or anyone says, if that's not real love and passion, I don't know what is.

I don't doubt that, I believe he did.

Completely not needed to quote this, but I just found lovely and wanted to save it hahah, it brings me a smile to read that. To know you see it like that.

Well, it does. But pain is part of life. And love. Like I said:

Buuuuuut aaaaaaaaaaa, I wanna love without the pain, love forever like in a dream. I don't want it to end.

"And for you, my love, I would let my heart be broken a thousand times."

(Again just quoting this because it to pretty and lovely to not too, makes my heart tingle)

Does that not also answer your earlier question? 

Sorry I have a potato brain t.t What question are you talking about? lol

Well I think "it" is on the nature of my being, what I talked about boylove above. Those were feelings between a boy and a man, it's not his fault nor mine that he grows up. Of course I dream of different realities, I dream about having answered his kisses, about having taken things a step furher at some point, of him being a boy and in my arms. But I'm also really happy about him growing up and a little proud of the man he is becoming.

I think I said it wrong, I didn't meant to say it was his fault of course, not something he can or could choose, more like, "life's" fault I guess, something that just happens out of our hands. But I don't think it's on the nature of yours or any of us being to never find that special unique love. Good for you to be a good friend and be happy with him growing up and happy about the man he is today, he deserves it. But like I was talking about earlier, I think there's one little one out there that just won't be like the others, one that just will refuse to grow, one that life will give the blessing to live in neverland. And I just think that for that little one that ending just won't happen.

I don't know why, I mean we could blame the western culture, obviously, but in the end who really knows why things went the way they did.
The same thing with Chap. I have this grand evolutionary theory of the nature of boylove to help me understand why things seem to work the way they do, but in the end who really knows?
But the fact is it happened. Elio and Oliver were not able to keep what they had together. Chap and I were never truly able to actualize our feelings. It happened.
The suffering that comes from not accepting, not letting go, not moving on - that is one pain that can be avoided. And should be!

Hmmm I guess so. Still makes me angry hahahah (them, not you and chap of course)
Honestly the theory does make me feel a bit more okay, it does make me analyse life a little bit more I guess, and see everything with other eyes. I think if I manage to keep that in my memory that it will be better and easier when and if anything ever happens to me like that. But at the same time I still believe that maybe, really maybe, one of those little ones will last forever.
I understand what you mean by that, but I don't think is something possible to me. To avoid the pain and the suffering from not letting go. I can't let it go of something like that. I just can't. And I think honestly nobody simply should. Pain is hurtful and harsh, but it's what makes things real and meaningful, it's what makes those times important and what makes you love and cherish those moments. If you simply let it go of the pain and avoid it you're letting go of the love too. You're letting go of those precious moments and everything else it made you feel.

As much as I like ponder and examine and question, and as deeply as I admit my inability to know his inner workings... What we had was good and is forever a part of our stories. There's this photograph, a couple of years ago, when Chap was growing up. He wouldn't insist on sleeping next to me anymore, or otherwise compulsively glue himself to me, but we still enjoyed being close and doing things together. This time around we were simply washing some dishes, I think I did the washing and he was rinsing and drying. And a friend of ours snaped a photo, I wish I could show it to you, the smile on his face and the way he looks at me sideways. It just tells me everything I really need to know about what we had: it was good.

That reminds me of a picture I have with the little boy I once loved, the first one when I was seven, there's a zillion pictures of me and him together, but the ones where we sleep together are the most precious ones. We sleeping together beside each other, nothing in between, sometimes hands almost touching, so close yet so far away. But still perfect. If I close my eyes I can recall those moments, I can recall my little warm body beside his, I can recall looking deep inside his eyes, I can see his pretty little face in front of me, his scruffy hair, his sweet boy smell. It was just perfect and everything to me.

Your picture also made me burst into tears hahahah, that sounds so lovely. Even without being able to see it I can picture every detail of it and.... It's just perfect. Like I said a billion times but I will repeat. I hope one day I will be able to feel something even remotely close as that, it's just everything I dream.

Hmm, I'm not sure you caught my intent here 

I did not lol, sorry about that, I thought you was talking about something else XD

The reason I can't uplode a photo of Chap here or share all the details of my life, is security. I don't want my PSC persona to be traced back to my real life identity.

Oh yeah, that's for sure, don't ever risk yourself please, just the descriptions are good enough, I have a good imagination heheh. But yeah need to be very careful with what we say, sadly is the world we live in.

But I have shared plenty, feel free to dig around

Don't mind if I do! Hopefully by next time!

I'm not at all sure where you got to that rock throwing, not wanting to do that at all. But I do think experience matters. A sheltered life is at least a little less lived than one full of experiences. And you can fit less in five years than you can in twenty.

Oh I agree with you yeah, I thought at first you meant you was afraid to speak more about it because you didn't wanted to be judged for having lived so little, or too much, and didn't wanted people to feel like you didn't deserved or something in those lines. Either way I agree yeah, experience does matters. A sheltered life afraid to be lived is blank and possibly even more painful in my view.

But don't you see I have had love! More that I could ever have dreamed of, much more that what I might deserve. And even still I have love. It's everywhere 

Hahahah, sorry about that. Its just the way I talk sometimes. I have this thing that I talk to people in the same way I would have wanted to be talked to me, so sometimes I just treat people like they want to hear what I would have wanted to hear. It might happen again I wont lie lol. Either way, perhaps you're right and you have felt a lot of love before and still do (bit jealous here!) but I wont take it back!! I hope you can find more and more and more love!!!!


And then onward to the bussiness of The Path - changing, growing.

Well, they are right. Here you seem to talk about love as something you need to possess in order to survive. But that's not how love works. It's not a possession. It's action, something you do, and choose to do.
Also, give yourself some credit for having survived so far. You are not entirely weak and broken. And as long as you're alive you can keep moving forward.

Perhaps they are right, and you are right, but I don't think I can see it a something else than that. I've lived enough to know there's no life without love, at least not for me, there's no reason, no passion, nothing else I can seek, from hobbies to job, work and whatnot, nothing gives me anything close to satisfaction and happiness. Heck if the theory we were talking about is correct, then we are born to be like that, born to make little boys happy, born to make their lifes better and born to be just that. And I think it's just what it is, making boys happy is the only thing it matters to me, the only thing it brings me joy, the only thing it fills the deep void in my heart.

Yet that is the way of life. Things end. And change.
Please don't tell yourself you cannot change, you eventually believe it and lock yourself in place. Go finish a book instead 

But not everything is like that, some people live forever together until they're old and gray, why I can't dream of that? What is so wrong about it?

I don't think I want to change tho, I don't wanna grow up and be like the people I've seen grow up and change, people that forgot how love feels, people that forgot to seek for happiness, forgot to seek for what matters, lost in this modern life, as broken and hurtful it is perhaps this is just who I am. I am not against changing my mind about things, or learning new things, is more about the overall big picture, I don't think I can "grow up" and be an adult, I don't think I can find a way to live without feeling love, those kind of things I don't think are possible to change.

I suppose it is a little sad. But it's not really scary or paralyzing. I believe it is just the fleeting nature of human life and love that make it so very beautiful.

But that's what makes it scary, life dissapears so quickly, it runs so fast. That's what makes me afraid, what makes me seek so much for love and someone. Because what if my life ends before I am able to feel that, what if I distract myself with other things and don't find what I truly want? What would have been my life? What would have I lived? What is life without love and beauty?

He does. And it so much worse, so much more painful. A brilliant book!

Whaaaaatttt, no thanks lol, I already have a problem reading and watching something that I know it's cute and sweet like heartstopper because it makes me sad to see them happy while not having someone, imagine reading about something that end in something painful! Last time I read something like this I was paralysed for like weeks because I was completely sad lol.

But perhaps you should read Kit by Alan Edward instead. I promise you will want to read the very end, too.

I don't think I've heard about it before, afraid to google and get spoilers, can you tell me what is about without telling too much pretty please? (sorry and big thanks XD)

Why? Or perhaps how, because I don't mean why in the sense "why are you like this" but rather "what goes on in your mind"?

I honestly don't know? I don't think I was always like that, but I also don't know exactly when it started, but most likely when everything changed in my life (aka when I was 14 or so and I found out I was a boylover), everything kinda got difficult after that, afraid to be who I am, afraid to talk to people, afraid to approach people and just doubting about everything. Sometimes I wonder if my thoughts are right or wrong, if I am being too open about boys, getting to close, saying anything remotely pedo like. And that extends to other things in life, being "gay", stuff I like and dislike, even for people that I trust. I basically closed myself in a shell and I don't know if I can really break free from it. Thinking i am a bad person for having those thoughts and wants also don't really help neither.

Makes you feel bad to think about boys sexually? Uhhuh, that's pretty rough. How on earth do your private thoughts constitute as abuse?

Not exactly feel bad about thinking about them sexually, but more specifically against their will (or without their consent). For example Christian Convery, that boy is fantastically hot and sweet and cute, and he posts some very.... sexy..... stuff. But I just can't think about him like that, even if I try, the guilt just fills me and I just can't imagine him in a way like that. Now, seeing his pictures are okay and don't make me feel bad, and if I dated him (oh dream lol) I wouldn't have trouble imagining or thinking about him (or doing anything), the exact problem is when there's no consent, even if it's completly harmless. That's when my mind just goes nope, you're doing something wrong.

That's what drives us humans onward, always wanting more. I think it's a good thing, to want more - or perhaps that frames it a little wrong. Hoarding things is not good. Confusing wants for needs is not good. But a passion to drive us forward, that's good.

Nothing much to say here other than I agree with you yeah. But the confusing wants with needs I guess we'll have to discuss lol.

I don't want to be mean, but are you basically saying the people in your life are not important enough for you to make an effort?  You do know that putting yourself out there is an integral part of forging meaningful connections? I feel like you're waiting for your prince charming to show up before you do anything substantial. That will not take you anywhere, I'm afraid.

It's not about not knowing or not trying, and more about things being meaningless in the past. Parents and whatnot, I am a good son and all of that, but that sort of connection just isn't enough to keep me grounded. And the friends part? They just straight up don't care about me, I always go out of my way to do stuff for them, to be a good friend, to try to make a connection, but in the end is meaningless, if I wasn't on their friend group everything would be the same. I've tried a billion times to talk to them, hang out with them, but I am always the one making the effort and they just don't seem to try, they just don't seem to care, what else I am suppose to do? Its also very difficult for me to put myself out there, like I was talking about before about closing myself in a shell.

And I mean, You tell me i am not suppose to seek for him, but also not suppose to wait for him? What I am suppose to do then? And what you mean by doing something substantial?

Some people say PSC has pushed a change in their lifes. I hope the same will be true for you. 

I hope you are right :/

For me growing up, becoming an adult, has meant being able to "provide" for my boys. Well, being there for friends and other loved ones too, sure, but when looking at live from the boyloving perspective boys are kinda central. So being in a better position to do things for them is kinda important to me. And it's not mainly about money or power, it's, ugh, about understanding, experience, the ability to convey love - all of those have been "upgraded" as I've grown. So I love growing up

That's where stuff gets complicated tho, I mean, I of course see your point, but like I said, I don't really have real "friends" that seem to care about me at least, and I don't really have boys in my life neither, so it gets complicated to find a reason to "grow up". I also have a big problem with changes like we talked about before.

But it doesn't mean giving up being a boy. The boy I was is still part of me. I'm just more now.

A smart and hard worker boy is still a boy! As long you never forget where you came from you're always a boy to me.


And onward to the final part: of good and evil.

Thank you for saying that. I hope I am okay. Still there is no denying some things in my life, some of my decisions, some of my actions are not all good.

But nobody is completely 100% good, not even "angels" are, not even adam and eve were. It's about knowing and learning from your mistakes, it's about growing and making sure the mistakes you've made in the past don't repeat. As long you're trying your best I am very sure you are a good person. And the more I learn about you more certain I am that you are.

It's true that we all make mistakes and true that in the best of circumstances we learn from them and do better.
..]
But I hope it was love, that it is love that he remembers. And I forever wish I could have done better.

But that's exactly what I am talking about. First of all, by "perfect at the time" I don't mean it was a perfect relationship, or that everything was perfect and great, is more about it was a meaning to an end, if the "bad" things you did there hadn't happened, they probably would have happened next time, because making mistakes is the only way we learn and grow. Its the only way we know they are mistakes to begin with. Second, as a couple, even a boy-boylover one, that's just part of it, being there for the person when they need it, telling them it's okay and everything will be allright, carrying their cross when they can't carry anymore.

I also don't think you should be as afraid of fear as you are, fear is an important feeling too. Having fear of hurting him is an important thing, it means you care for him, it means you want the best and only the best for him, and as a boylover that's the main thing, of course, you need to learn to control it, learn when it's okay to feel fear and when it's not, learn when it's a good thing and when it's a bad thing, but I don't think it's something you should simply get rid off. I don't think it's wrong to be afraid to lose him, as long you understand that feeling and again, control it. But if you were not afraid to lose something you love, you are not really loving it.

Yes, it's not an even ground and the stakes are higher for us, but we can't only treat them as kids, they're also part of us, our partners, our love. And they need to do their part too, you need to balance both for a good relationship. Imagining something you can't ever know the answer too it's just harmful for you. You just can't know it really. Forever wishing you could have done better should always be the case, even in a perfect relationship, because that again, means you actually care and love, but shouldn't be something that consumes you. You did the best you could, and that was enough.

No. Or at least it is very unlike Jeremiah got more than what he gave. And we're all in debt to one and other, it's the way life is, interconnected.
But it is in the past. I cannot change the past.
So, I try to do better now. And pay forward his love and all that I have received before and after.

Well, unless you ask him it's something you'll never know, and that's okay. I do agree with the rest tho, we are, wanting or not, forever in debt to one another. that's what makes life meaningful and real.
But I still don't think you should "pay it forward" for his love, you should do that because the little one in the future, not the one in the past. You should do that because having that little one happy is everything you want it, and not because you're paying someone's good action.

What really is my best? I felt something was wrong months before he told me - and did nothing 'cause I didn't know what to do. So clearly I could have done better. But yeah, I accept that, too, with some struggle. And perhaps the next time I will be able to do better yet.

My opinion is we always do our best, even when we think we are not doing it. Your best is exactly what you were capable of doing in the moment. Maybe it wasn't "the best" sometimes it isn't, that's true, but it's "your best". You knew something was wrong, but you didn't knew what to do, and that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes we just don't know how to act and approach stuff. The same way he could have asked for help earlier, but he wasn't capable of. That's not because he wasn't giving his best, he was, I am sure and you will probably be sure he was too. It was just not enough at first... Until it was.Yes you could have done better, Yes he could have done better. But that's not important right now in this moment. What is important is to be there for him now that he told you, and do whatever you can to be there for him, the same way I'm sure he is doing the best he can to get better. It's all we can do in those moments, that is "the best".

So, this is it. I don't know if this last bit seems bleak to you. But it not meant to  The point is that while not perfect things are very much getting better. All the time. I just keep wanting more

I hope they keep getting better! For you and me and the billion of little boys out there too!


This is soo big hahahah, soon we're gonna be writing books to each other lol, jokes aside this has been really great. Being able to talk to someone about all of those things is awesome, sorry again about the delay, hopefully won't happen again.

Thanks again for merging them too, that was honestly geting a mess lol.

And not over bearing at all I think, been loving talking with you!

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.

[Itumeleng]

Hello again 

Another boylover friend of mine told me about it once, and honestly it's just really beautiful.

Yeah, there was a really beautifully written version of this somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it again.

Whatever is true or not, I wish it is right.

Well, yes, it's just theories. But if we believe that there are boylovers - and we should know! - then there ought to be something of an explanation for us.

But I was talking to a friend about it before, and the more we talked about it more it seemed to me that it just isn't the same thing. Muggles love sleeping with many people, they like having sex just because, they go out their way to betray their partners, they break up and date and kiss multiple people on a single night.

I can't quite agree. There are many good and faithful vanilla heteros, one of my best mates's like that, and plenty of MAAs that sleep around and don't really care for their young friends.

It's just impossible to me that that is same feeling.

I have to admit I've wondered about this too. Just watching movies and seeing all the absolutely insane things men do "to get some" and how the plot so often circles around "a love story" i.e. getting laid... And everyone just seems to accept that while I'm like "the fudge's happening here?!"

Yet, I have to wonder, as well, how my actions with boys would look like if my vanilla friends were able to see them. People do weird things for love, and for sex.

So, perhaps not quite the same but a lot of our feelings are similar.

Because I couldn't ever imagine a boylover doing anything like that, I couldn't ever imagine me doing anything like that.

Have you ever had sex with boys flaunted before your eyes for most of your waking hours? With society pushing the idea that having as many as you can is a credit to your name?

I just don't believe what they call it love to be anything close to this.

Again, I think love is truly more and action than a feeling. "Muggles" are cabable of that as well.

But here's an idea. Parents with their new born. That feeling is quite something, from what I've observed and talked about. And I think for us what happens is that we get the sexual feelings of love, the attraction, and the nurturing feelings of love activated simultaniously - and it is a really nice feeling.

I do hope they do tho, and I do agree that we do (or at least I do) seem to have some sort of boy magnet hahahah, It's like some sort of superpower, boys always seem to be attracted to me or like me.

Aha! I'm glad you get this feeling too

And it's not something completly normal neither, because a lot of times adults notice that affinity too and they're always somewhat surprised when their little kids cannot get their hands out of me.

The kids had their hands inside you? Those horny bastards!

Yeah, this has happened to me too. I think I freak out at least one mother, when after like five minutes her kids were all over me and then asking me to come and sleep with them. She tried "interrogate" them, asking "what's so great about Itu" but they couldn't answer.

Also, a discussion I would really like to have with one of my grown up young friends: how do they remember being with me as a kid, how did it feel for them. (Taling about just being close, being together, connected.)

Fortunately my real life friends and everyone in the pack (a group of friends, mostly boys) has accepted this as something normal

I'm always afraid to give the wrong look, to say the wrong thing, to do anything that raises someones eyebrow. So most of the time I ignore it, and it honestly hurts me, and I'm sure it hurts them too, but I just don't know how to handle it. Unless is a close friend or someone I really trust, if I am out or anything and a little kid passes me, looks at me or approaches me, I try my best not to look, I try my best to ignore it, to not smile back.

It is sad 

Little boys don't know the cultural rules to play with so when they really like you they'll just act on it and it sometimes really bothers me when I'm not able to reciprocate. They get, subconsciously, the nonverbal signals that I am open to love and when they go for it they get slapped down. This would vertainly be the first thing I'd change if I could move the stars.

But, on the othe hand, you can get away with a lot as long as you don't look creepy doing it. So mostly likely anything you might do is just fine

That the moment that boy-boylover relationship is born is also already predestined to fail.

Not to fail but to reach it's completion: growing up. It's more of a success situation than a failure.

Even tho they fail a lot of times, muggles relationships (aka marriage) is fated to be ever lasting, to never ever end. "Until death do us part" as they say.

While true that sapien males favour the "stick around and maximes the success of you offspring" strategy over the "go around and maximes the number of your offspring" -strategy, I'm not sure if we can say vanilla heteros are "fated" to have a happily ever after. A lot of marriages end and a lot of those that endure are unhappy. Especially if the spouses refuse to grow and change together.

Not because I might go to jail, not because I might hurt myself or the people that are close to me. But because I could hurt them, truly deeply hurt them.

I agree, that is the worst - and one of my biggest fears.

But, fortunately, often we can simply ignore the madness around us, both boylovers and boys. The boys will integrate their experiences with us into their story and remember them with warmth.

That makes me happier to know, I thought you still felt that way about him.

Oh, no, no. I have indeed been able to leave some of my follies behind - hence the love for growing up.  And being able to more often say "yes" to little boys reaching for love and being able to say "no" more gently. Good stuff, my friend, good stuff.

Well, it does. But pain is part of life. And love. Like I said:

Buuuuuut aaaaaaaaaaa, I wanna love without the pain, love forever like in a dream. I don't want it to end.

I'm not sure if I should prep you a bottle of warm milk or tell you to grow up here  (I hope we're familiar enough to joke around like this, please let me know if this makes you uncomfortable!)

"And for you, my love, I would let my heart be broken a thousand times."

(Again just quoting this because it to pretty and lovely to not too, makes my heart tingle)

I kinda like it myself. I think I'll just add this to my profile.

Does that not also answer your earlier question? 

Sorry I have a potato brain t.t What question are you talking about? lol

And what a lovely potato it is! But look above, talking about pain, and you asked the question "but isn't that painful" a lot. So, that would be my answer to that.

Also, life is better when you don't run away from pain

But I don't think it's on the nature of yours or any of us being to never find that special unique love.

No, not this. Rather, hmm, maybe I could throw the word "fate" in here: It's my fate to find that special unique love over again and again.

Honestly the theory does make me feel a bit more okay, it does make me analyse life a little bit more I guess, and see everything with other eyes. I think if I manage to keep that in my memory that it will be better and easier when and if anything ever happens to me like that.

Good! That's just what we should do with our potatos!

Pain is hurtful and harsh, but it's what makes things real and meaningful, it's what makes those times important and what makes you love and cherish those moments. If you simply let it go of the pain and avoid it you're letting go of the love too. You're letting go of those precious moments and everything else it made you feel.

The way I see it you're talking about a different kind of pain here, or perhaps mixing up what I would see as two seperate things.

Love and meaning always come with pain. That's the kind of pain one ought to embrace, not fear or avoid. We could say you keep moving forward in life even though you realize there will be pain. I find that to be one of the keys to a "good life".

The other side of this coin is to keep moving forward in life even thoughthere has been pain. Wouldn't you agree I ought to be able to remember Jeremiah or Chap lovingly without pain? That comes from letting go of what is past - an other key to quality living

Also, I find that if one clings on to things that have passed, those things will rot - a real way to lose the love and precious moments that one did have.

I thought at first you meant you was afraid to speak more about it because you didn't wanted to be judged for having lived so little, or too much, and didn't wanted people to feel like you didn't deserved or something in those lines.

Ah, no, just trying to say I've been through some shit without sounding as conceited as the barber's cat.

Perhaps they are right, and you are right, but I don't think I can see it a something else than that. I've lived enough to know there's no life without love, at least not for me, there's no reason, no passion, nothing else I can seek, from hobbies to job, work and whatnot, nothing gives me anything close to satisfaction and happiness.

Uh, we're not just boylovers, we're human beings. It appears to me that MAAs often get hung up on their sexuality because that's the part of us we're often denied. They feel like it's the only real thing, only thing that could bring them happiness.

But I don't think that's true. One needs to cultivate his whole being to be content.

But not everything is like that, some people live forever together until they're old and gray, why I can't dream of that?

There's nothing wrong with dreaming - unless it gets in the way of living!

I don't think I want to change tho, I don't wanna grow up and be like the people I've seen grow up and change, people that forgot how love feels, people that forgot to seek for happiness, forgot to seek for what matters, lost in this modern life, as broken and hurtful it is perhaps this is just who I am.

Do you feel like that's wha has to happen to you if you "grow up"?

Because what if my life ends before I am able to feel that, what if I distract myself with other things and don't find what I truly want? What would have been my life? What would have I lived? What is life without love and beauty?

So, are you scared to live your life ... because you might miss out on your life?

Last time I read something like this I was paralysed for like weeks because I was completely sad lol.

Uhhuh, yeah, so maybe not start with Call Me By Your Name, but finishing stories might not be a bad goal here. We practice life through those borrowed experiences, too, and it's not all bad an alternative for experiencing it all on our own.

But perhaps you should read Kit by Alan Edward instead. I promise you will want to read the very end, too.

I don't think I've heard about it before, afraid to google and get spoilers, can you tell me what is about without telling too much pretty please? (sorry and big thanks XD)

After much searching I have found it! Here's a review and here's the actual book. Links to greek-love.com, which should be a safe site, but I would still use it only through tor.

But all in all, it's a difficult but very sweet book, highly recommended.

I basically closed myself in a shell and I don't know if I can really break free from it. Thinking i am a bad person for having those thoughts and wants also don't really help neither.

Well, then, it's important to hear that you are not a bad person, least of all because you're a boylover.

And let's try to pry that shell open a little bit here, it's like a practice run for real life.

Not exactly feel bad about thinking about them sexually, but more specifically against their will (or without their consent). For example Christian Convery, that boy is fantastically hot and sweet and cute, and he posts some very.... sexy..... stuff. But I just can't think about him like that, even if I try, the guilt just fills me and I just can't imagine him in a way like that.

Christian Convery... ? ... Oh, Sweet Tooth! (Thanks Google!) My goodness that boy is hot! And he posts sexy stuff? Uhuh! Naughty!

If I were your therapist your homework would be to masturbate at least once a day thinking about all the naughty things you would do with Christian. This might also be the reason why I'm not licensed for therapy but that's just the system of oppression in action 

No, but really, there's nothing wrong with imagining things. How about I give you my permission to imagine things about me as a kid? There was this one photo, times were different you see, where I am maybe five or six, sitting on a family friend's lap, naked and spreading my legs so that everything is graphicly visible. Now a days that would be seen as child porn, I think. I was a lean kid but not skinny, a little big for my age, and summers always bleached my hair blond. Pretty cute all together, only got ugly because of hormone monsters later on.

It's not about not knowing or not trying, and more about things being meaningless in the past. Parents and whatnot, I am a good son and all of that, but that sort of connection just isn't enough to keep me grounded. And the friends part? They just straight up don't care about me, I always go out of my way to do stuff for them, to be a good friend, to try to make a connection, but in the end is meaningless, if I wasn't on their friend group everything would be the same. I've tried a billion times to talk to them, hang out with them, but I am always the one making the effort and they just don't seem to try, they just don't seem to care, what else I am suppose to do?

I get it, I think I got the same feeling with friends starting families and me being one of the few who didn't. Their lives resolved around that family life that I just wasn't a part of that dispite our best intentions. Friendship often resolves around shared life and only few relationships survive when that ends. And it appears to me I'm not really "the most important person" in anybody's life - part of me wishes there was someone like that for me.

And I mean, You tell me i am not suppose to seek for him, but also not suppose to wait for him? What I am suppose to do then? And what you mean by doing something substantial?

Substantial, like trying to make life a little less unfair for people around you. I'm not trying to say you're not, like you said, I'm sure you're a good son and a good friend.

In my opinion, what we're supposed to do is to live our lives as well as we can - not seeking or waiting for something after which life would begin for real. We ought to live well not because of some reward but because it's the good thing to do. Like, say, smiling to a boy, not because he might then blow you, or choosing not to do that 'cause what people might think of you, but just doing it because it'd be nice for him that someone smiles. It looks like the law of karma to me, the unconditional acts of love eventually seem to come back, threefold at least.

I also don't think you should be as afraid of fear as you are, fear is an important feeling too.

There's healthy fear as in a feeling that makes you notice danger and motivates you to act on in, but you decide how, rationally. And then there's fear that controls you, that gets in the way of rational thinking.

But if you were not afraid to lose something you love, you are not really loving it.

Oh, well, then I wouldn't have much love in me at all 

Love is in the actions I take for my boys, not in posessing them. Of course I will be sad when I'll no longer be able to be with them but I am not afraid of that.

Forever wishing you could have done better should always be the case, even in a perfect relationship, because that again, means you actually care and love, but shouldn't be something that consumes you.

It doesn't consume me. And that just why I can admit to the imperfection, the evil, right besides the good and wholesome.

But I still don't think you should "pay it forward" for his love, you should do that because the little one in the future, not the one in the past. You should do that because having that little one happy is everything you want it, and not because you're paying someone's good action.

Ah, yes. Not paying it forward in the sense of always looking back to the past, trying to replace him with someone else, making my choices because of him. But paying it forward in the sense of not looking back into the past to try and repay an impossible debt but looking forward and accepting that what good I've been given can flow trhough me, forward, with the young friend I am in that moment.

My opinion is we always do our best, even when we think we are not doing it. Your best is exactly what you were capable of doing in the moment. Maybe it wasn't "the best" sometimes it isn't, that's true, but it's "your best".

Wouldn't that mean there's no accountability? How could you judge anyone if they always simply do "their best"?

But suppose I get what you mean. I just frame it as accepting how imperfect I am.

This is soo big hahahah, soon we're gonna be writing books to each other lol, jokes aside this has been really great. Being able to talk to someone about all of those things is awesome, sorry again about the delay, hopefully won't happen again.

[ ... ]

And not over bearing at all I think, been loving talking with you!

Great! I do really enjoy this as wel.

But I'm sure there'll be delays, I atleast am going to be busier along the spring and not always able to answer quickly. And it's okay, we have our off line lives to attend to, too. It was just that sometimes new interesting members post actively for a while and then disappear for ever. I would miss you if that happened.

Whaaaaaattt??? You need to both link me it and countinue!!!!!! I love hearing and reading other people's stories, even more yours that I already feel like I know it hahah, pretty please!!! (at least the first part! XD)

Here it is: Jeremiah and I. Huh, I started that eight years ago. How the years roll! But I think you need 100 posts to access the story section, so here's something waiting for you once you reach that goal

Till the next time!

Itu

[DarkRedComet]

Hello hello! XD

Yeah, there was a really beautifully written version of this somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it again.

Whaaa, that's awful, I would have loved to read it! If you (or anyone lurking o.o) manage to find let me know!

Well, yes, it's just theories. But if we believe that there are boylovers - and we should know! - then there ought to be something of an explanation for us.

I guess so yeah, but if you look into it deeply, there are terrible people out there too, psychopaths, assassins and whatnot,  and I would have hoped and wished that they're not here for "a reason" or because of evolution, so it's hard to pinpoint what is what, if you know what I mean. It's hard to find the difference between being here because of a "mistake" or because of a "reason" and I mean, how do you even validate a theory like that really? But in the end, I do choose to believe the theory is right!!!

I can't quite agree. There are many good and faithful vanilla heteros, one of my best mates's like that, and plenty of MAAs that sleep around and don't really care for their young friends.

Hmm, I guess so yeah, there are good and bad people everywhere, that is for sure. I guess is just what I feel or see it more. I don't really see or interact a lot with MAAs, so most of the ones I've met at least wouldn't ever dare to do anything terrible like that to a little boy, so on my own dream world (aka my head) they seem to "love it more". Now muggles (even LGBT+ ones) always seem to be more okay doing "bad" stuff, sleeping around a lot, caring more about numbers and how many people they kissed or fucked.

I have to admit I've wondered about this too. Just watching movies and seeing all the absolutely insane things men do "to get some" and how the plot so often circles around "a love story" i.e. getting laid... And everyone just seems to accept that while I'm like "the fudge's happening here?!"

Exactly! It just I don't know, something i've never been exactly able to understand or process. There's some cute stuff out there for sure, not gonna say it's like 100% bad. It's just, the majority is so tummy aching that I just can't see it as them feeling what I feel when I look into a little boy's eyes, if they felt that I doubt they could do anything to hurt that cute perfect little one.

Have you ever had sex with boys flaunted before your eyes for most of your waking hours? With society pushing the idea that having as many as you can is a credit to your name?

Hmmm, I guess i've never looked it like that. I've never had sex with a boy, like, ever. So I can't really say I would do something like that, even if it was more okay to be with a boy.

But analysing at it like that... I guess I can say I understand a little bit more. I can't say I agree with it, I still think it's something not okay and sickening. But I could see a world where everyone loved little boys and found their beauty as perfect and incredible as us. And if that little world existed, sleeping with a lot of beautiful hot boys would be something for sure desirable to most people. Even more if they boys were "okay" with it. I could for sure imagine someone going out and kissing 100 different little boys in a party, I mean, how could you not right? They're so beautiful and perfect and.... everything....

Again, I think love is truly more and action than a feeling. "Muggles" are cabable of that as well.

I am not saying muggles are incapable of loving or feeling love. I am sure they are, or at least most of them. I think the question is more about "What is love?" Is the love I feel the same way you feel? Is the love I feel the same love a muggles feel? There are just so many variables you know. And my conclusion, completely my own, is that I don't think the love they feel is the same feeling we feel, doesn't seem like it to me at least, it doesn't seem as fulfilling as what we feel, as infinite, powerful, precious and life changing as we feel.

But here's an idea. Parents with their new born. That feeling is quite something, from what I've observed and talked about. And I think for us what happens is that we get the sexual feelings of love, the attraction, and the nurturing feelings of love activated simultaniously - and it is a really nice feeling.

Yeah I will have to agree with that. I've actually thought about on it a lot before. About where exactly my "parenting" feelings end and the "sexual" feelings start, and I just were never able to exactly pinpoint it. Everything is entangled and mashed up together in such a way that's just impossible to have one without having the other. Not saying me or we are not able to be a parent without having sex with our kids, I'm pretty sure a lot of MAAs went trough their lifes without ever touching a kid and without ever knowing what that desire they feel is. Is just more about, even something as simple as holding a little boy on your lap or throwing him around in the air, you just start feeling something so warm and deep and fulfilling, your heart beats faster and faster, you can't stop looking into their little big eyes, you can't help but wonder how a  warm hug would feel, can't help but wish you could cuddle with him for hours without moving an inch. And that goes on and on. And I think that's not something a parent feel, but neither something someone that "loves" someone feels neither, is something that only we can feel. Something so perfectly mixed and entangled, so beautifully arranged that only we are allowed to see and feel.... And that again, it's beautiful.

The kids had their hands inside you? Those horny bastards!

I wish!!!!!! Hahahahah

Yeah, this has happened to me too. I think I freak out at least one mother, when after like five minutes her kids were all over me and then asking me to come and sleep with them. She tried "interrogate" them, asking "what's so great about Itu" but they couldn't answer.

That would scare me to death. I would probably turn red like a tomato and start shaking, sounds like a nightmare to me. It sounds very cute and sweet, but at the same time, I don't know, I'm so much afraid of doing anything wrong and suspicious that anything and everything scares me.

Also, a discussion I would really like to have with one of my grown up young friends: how do they remember being with me as a kid, how did it feel for them. (Taling about just being close, being together, connected.)

Oh, that actually sounds very interesting, actually might be something worth making a new post, what do you think? I mean, maybe you haven't ever reached them to ask or to know, but maybe some people out there have. Would be something very fantastic to know and read more about it.

Fortunately my real life friends and everyone in the pack (a group of friends, mostly boys) has accepted this as something normal

I can't help but say yet again how lucky you are! That sounds like a wonderland to me hahahah. I don't really have boys in my life, much less a pack of it! If it's not something too much to ask, how did that ended up happening? I mean, how did you ended up befriend so many boys? and how are you okay being older and hanging out with them, don't you get afraid and nervous? Scared? (And what do you mean by accepted this as something normal? Do you mean they're okay wiht you looking and interacting with little boys? That gives me goosebumps just to think about it lol, sounds sooo scary)

Little boys don't know the cultural rules to play with so when they really like you they'll just act on it and it sometimes really bothers me when I'm not able to reciprocate. They get, subconsciously, the nonverbal signals that I am open to love and when they go for it they get slapped down. This would vertainly be the first thing I'd change if I could move the stars.

Yeah, it makes me extremely sad inside to know that happens. You can se the light in their eyes, the smile, the way they look at you.... And you just can't really do anything about it, if you ever manage to move the stars please do! Hahahah. Joke aside. Whenever I can I still try my best, if I am 100% sure nobody else is looking, when I am 100% sure they're the only ones that are able to see it. Then I smile back, A big giant smile, with eyes, mouth, the whole face. I look deep into their eyes and smile. And you can just see their little face opening up like a beautiful flower. There's nothing else in the world more purely divine than that. That smile they give back. Genuine love and happiness.

But, on the othe hand, you can get away with a lot as long as you don't look creepy doing it. So mostly likely anything you might do is just fine

I know technically most stuff is okay to do or even say, but I can't help but get scared by it. Can't help but wonder if that person ended up thinking I was weird. If they ended up talking about it to someone. And so and so, my brain just don't really let me take risks, I am a very afraid person.

[e true that sapien males favour the "stick around and maximes the success of you offspring" strategy over the "go around and maximes the number of your offspring" -strategy, I'm not sure if we can say vanilla heteros are "fated" to have a happily ever after. A lot of marriages end and a lot of those that endure are unhappy. Especially if the spouses refuse to grow and change together.

I guess so, but still just feels a little bit unfair to me that they are "allowed" that I guess. Even if a lot of times they end up breaking up. Or end up living a sad life together, it feels unfair to me that the "normal" and "natural" life for them is to marry, to find "the one", and just life forever and ever with them. While we aren't allowed that, just finding someone for us is unworldly harder. And even if we end up finding, they're one day growing up. They one day change. They one day move one. And we are left alone again. That's the "normal" for us at least.

But, fortunately, often we can simply ignore the madness around us, both boylovers and boys. The boys will integrate their experiences with us into their story and remember them with warmth.

But how? I don't know if I can do that....

I don't know if I can just ignore the madness, ignore the fact I might hurt them, I might destroy their lifes. Even more when there's just nothing I can do to make sure it won't happen. I really wish I can and hope I can, but I just don't know how can I ignore and move on from these feelings.

How can you know they'll think about in the future as a good experience too? How can you know they'll remember with with warmth and not as a fire burning them alive?

Oh, no, no. I have indeed been able to leave some of my follies behind - hence the love for growing up.  And being able to more often say "yes" to little boys reaching for love and being able to say "no" more gently. Good stuff, my friend, good stuff.

That's very sweet to know, I am very happy for you. Moving on and learning how to deal with those feelings is always great and rewarding I am sure.

I'm not sure if I should prep you a bottle of warm milk or tell you to grow up here  (I hope we're familiar enough to joke around like this, please let me know if this makes you uncomfortable!)

Hahahah, totally fine to joke like that! And I mean, why not both!?! XD

But honestly, I sometimes think I am "stuck" between my 8yo self and my "now" self. So both makes sense, a part of me tha keeps growing just wants to life a calm and sweet life, just wanna run around in the grass, just wanna dance and smile and be happy. Just wanna be a little boy. A lot of muggles think it's offensive when adults treat them as they're kids, but honestly I kinda like it. When you explain things to me like I am 5yo, when you try to be overly nice to me, that brings me joy and makes me feel complete for a little second, makes me forget the way life is. And that's how I try to treat others too, if they don't like their problem hahahah, but I always try to treat everyone very nice and well, how I think I would've have liked to be treated.

I kinda like it myself. I think I'll just add this to my profile.

I saw it!!! I really loved it hahah. I am not even gonna lie, I might someday steal that and tell a little boy that exact phrase XD (If the stars ever align of course)

And what a lovely potato it is! But look above, talking about pain, and you asked the question "but isn't that painful" a lot. So, that would be my answer to that.

OOHHHHH. Wow that took a while, I was able to understand literally like just now, had to scroll back multiple times even lol. But yeah, in the end I agree. That's actually what I write about a lot in my poems (I write poems/musics sometimes when the pain is destroying me inside), and is honestly the reality. That love, that overbearing happiness feeling is so fantastic, so incredible that doesn't matter the pain it came before or the pain it's gonna come after. That little moment, as quick and fast it might have been, is worth a thousand times it's weight in pain, it just is. I guess it's just that I have been stuck in that pain for so long that I kinda forgot how good the other part was. So long with such a strong pain that the happiness was kinda sleeping away from me. That the good moments on my mind were slowly drifting away into nothingness. I hope I can take it for longer. But I hope even more that I am allowed to have that happiness again, even if it's just for a second.

Either way, I am really thankfull you reminded me of that.

No, not this. Rather, hmm, maybe I could throw the word "fate" in here: It's my fate to find that special unique love over again and again.

Hmmm, if I looked with those eyes it actually doesn't sound that terrible. That is, if I actually were able to find that feeling over and over again, I am more like stuck without not even been able find it once! Lol, I must have lost in the love lotery hahahah. I still think I would prefer to finding it once and having it forever I think... but having it multiple times for multiple boys doesn't sound like the worst idea neither I guess. If it happens to me...

Good! That's just what we should do with our potatos!

I thought we were suppose to make fries.... but that sounds good too! Heheh

Love and meaning always come with pain. That's the kind of pain one ought to embrace, not fear or avoid. We could say you keep moving forward in life even though you realize there will be pain. I find that to be one of the keys to a "good life".

Yeah I can totally agreed with you. I mean, it's still very hard for me to accept and embrace that pain. Is very hard almost impossible to not fear or avoid. But I know is a pain we need to be okay with if I actually want to be happy someday.

The other side of this coin is to keep moving forward in life even thoughthere has been pain. Wouldn't you agree I ought to be able to remember Jeremiah or Chap lovingly without pain? That comes from letting go of what is past - an other key to quality living
Also, I find that if one clings on to things that have passed, those things will rot - a real way to lose the love and precious moments that one did have.

I kinda disagree with you. I mean, I agree that we must move forward, even if we have that pain inside, that's just the nature of life. Almost everyone out there have some sort of pain inside they must embrance and master every single day. Some pain they must ignore and smile on top of it. But I think it's important to remember the pain the people important to us have caused us, the special marks they left behind. I don't mean we should only feel the pain, neither that we should forget the good times and the happiness they brought. Only that we should feel everything truly. That we should remember the happiness alongside the pain. Only by remembering the pain of losing them can we actually weight the happiness they caused and how precious they were for us. I think that's something very important, that even though you moved on that they're forever living inside of you. That even though you might love someone different now you still love them forever and ever.

Uh, we're not just boylovers, we're human beings. It appears to me that MAAs often get hung up on their sexuality because that's the part of us we're often denied. They feel like it's the only real thing, only thing that could bring them happiness.
But I don't think that's true. One needs to cultivate his whole being to be content.

But that's exactly what I mean. If we must cultivate our whole being to be content, how I'm suppose to be content without having love? Sometimes I overreact to things I am sure lol. I still seek friends, I am still seeking my carrer and I am still doing a billion of things on my day to day life. I am not stuck looking for love 24/7 or anything like that. I am not that crazy hahahah. But like you said, we must have ~everything~ to feel happy and complete. And without love, without a little boy by my side, I just don't think I can feel that. That's what I mean.
Everything else I think I have to some extent at least. I might not have the best of friends, but I still like them and care for them. I might not have the best parents but I still have a family. I might not have the best of jobs or be on the top right now, but I like what I do. But the one thing, the one and only thing I think I don't have at all right now is love. Is that magical fantastical feeling. That warm and precious feeling. A little boy by my side.

There's nothing wrong with dreaming - unless it gets in the way of living!

Ok good! Because I won't stop dreaming of that!

Do you feel like that's wha has to happen to you if you "grow up"?

For me that's the true meaning of growing up, the true meaning of "being an adult". Forgeting how to love, forgeting how to enjoy life, forgeting the happiness in little things. Being stuck in a job you hate for money you don't really care. Busy missing out in our kids life because you were working you ass off for something numb. For me that's what growing up is, at least what I see most people defining as being an adult. And that's the kind of growing up I refuse to do.

I still think it's important to change, to learn and grown, I think it's important to learn new things, go to new places, change your perspective of things. I just don't think I wanna be a "grown up". There's just no life in that.

So, are you scared to live your life ... because you might miss out on your life?

Kinda? I guess I am just scared to get distracted seeking only one side of the puzzle and not being able to complete it in time if you know what I mean. Like I said earlier, I still do all of that, I still seek for a better life in the other places, I might sound like a crazy weirdo that can only think about love but that's not me (at least not 100% of me heheh). I just think I am in a good place in everything else. So I am just afraid to rush and focus in any of them while ignoring the part I am missing. Using the puzzle analogy again, Let's say is a puzzle with 100 pieces. But somehow I lost 10 pieces (Oh no!!). It feels pointless to try to solve everything else if I know I have lost so many pieces. I feel like I should look out for them and make sure I have the missing pieces before actually solving the rest. Because if I will never be able to solve the puzzle without them. And who knows, what if I do solve them and when I go look out for the missing pieces I knock the puzzle in the floor and end losing everything again? (I hope you can understand it lol)

Uhhuh, yeah, so maybe not start with Call Me By Your Name, but finishing stories might not be a bad goal here. We practice life through those borrowed experiences, too, and it's not all bad an alternative for experiencing it all on our own.
But perhaps you should read Kit by Alan Edward instead. I promise you will want to read the very end, too.

Hmmm, I promise I will do my best to finish it! I hope there's no bad ending tho t.t. Thanks again for finding me some links! I very much appreciate it, will definitely start reading as soon as I can! Even tho I might not finish stuff sometimes I still enjoy reading a lot XD

And let's try to pry that shell open a little bit here, it's like a practice run for real life.

Easier said than done. I know I should, I just don't really know how to do that...

Christian Convery... ? ... Oh, Sweet Tooth! (Thanks Google!) My goodness that boy is hot! And he posts sexy stuff? Uhuh! Naughty!

YESSSS!!!!!! He is fantastic. My dream boy, like woooooooow. I would throw myself in front of a train for him lol. He is not just sexy and hot, he has a very sweet and endearing personality, he is honestly like 1 in a million. And whaaaaat, have you never seen his pictures? He is like 99% of the time shirtless and.... god.

If I were your therapist your homework would be to masturbate at least once a day thinking about all the naughty things you would do with Christian. This might also be the reason why I'm not licensed for therapy but that's just the system of oppression in action 

Lmfaaooooo XD I loved that hahahah.

No, but really, there's nothing wrong with imagining things. How about I give you my permission to imagine things about me as a kid? There was this one photo, times were different you see, where I am maybe five or six, sitting on a family friend's lap, naked and spreading my legs so that everything is graphicly visible. Now a days that would be seen as child porn, I think. I was a lean kid but not skinny, a little big for my age, and summers always bleached my hair blond. Pretty cute all together, only got ugly because of hormone monsters later on.

Hmmm... I guess I can try? I mean, if you technically give me person there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. I don't think nobody ever has given me permission to think about them naked lol, so thanks a lot!

And.... wow.... that description is kinda hot hahaha sorry XD. I will not get into detail about my thoughts and the little guy between my legs hahahah. I would die for a picture like that! It sounds absolutely sweet and lovely and perfect! Yeah people back in the day were a lot more okay taking pictures like that, and then they show it off to people hahaha. How many people must have seen your little naked willy XD?. I have some pictures like that too of me, I would give you a description but it's been like forever since I saw it and I don't really remember other than I am pretty sure I have lol. Today that would most likely minimum weird out people. And possibly make you go to jail, cause I am like, 90% sure if you take a picture of a naked boy with your phone they have some way to know, and you're getting added to a list somewhere.

I get it, I think I got the same feeling with friends starting families and me being one of the few who didn't. Their lives resolved around that family life that I just wasn't a part of that dispite our best intentions. Friendship often resolves around shared life and only few relationships survive when that ends. And it appears to me I'm not really "the most important person" in anybody's life - part of me wishes there was someone like that for me.

I think it's just a matter of time until you can find it someone like that. I really doubt me or you are going to go trough our entire lifes by ourselfs without people around of us. Might feel a little bit lost and alone right now, but the more time goes on the more you get to understand youself and what you like on people. And of course what people like on you. And with that it gets easier and easier to find people with the same interests and wants, people that see the world in a more similar way than you. As boylovers I don't think it'll ever be perfect like muggles have. But i am sure it can get very close!

Also I hope you recognize you're a very important person in my life right now! I might not know a lot of you, not know where you live or who you are. But you're still very important in my life. Just being able to chat like this has been fantastic and not something I was expecting. Feels like I am drinking a beer in an old bar and just putting out random chat with an old friend of mine. Without any censorship or any being afraid to be who I am, it's honestly pretty great!. I mean, every time I reply I am pretty sure I spend like, a few hours just reading everything and making sure it's perfect, I think that already says a lot hahah. I hope we can keep doing this more and more XD.

In my opinion, what we're supposed to do is to live our lives as well as we can - not seeking or waiting for something after which life would begin for real. We ought to live well not because of some reward but because it's the good thing to do. Like, say, smiling to a boy, not because he might then blow you, or choosing not to do that 'cause what people might think of you, but just doing it because it'd be nice for him that someone smiles. It looks like the law of karma to me, the unconditional acts of love eventually seem to come back, threefold at least.

Hmmm, I understand it yeah. I always try my best to be a good friend and help everyone around me. But I never looked into it like that. and yeah the big problem is still being able to interact with boys without being afraid of the future. It's scary, but I agree is probably the only way to ever find someone. But god it's scary my friend.

There's healthy fear as in a feeling that makes you notice danger and motivates you to act on in, but you decide how, rationally. And then there's fear that controls you, that gets in the way of rational thinking.

I agree yeah. Nothing much to add other than I don't really know how to do that lol, how to control when to be afraid and when to not.

Love is in the actions I take for my boys, not in posessing them. Of course I will be sad when I'll no longer be able to be with them but I am not afraid of that.

I think for me it works it a bit different. I feel stuff either 0% or 100%. So if I love I love it deeply. And that comes with being afraid to lose them. Of course I know I need to control that feeling. I agree with that. And I agree I shouldn't let that guide me or make me do anything dumb out of fear. But I don't think I can love without that fear. Because is just part of it, at least for me I think.

It doesn't consume me. And that just why I can admit to the imperfection, the evil, right besides the good and wholesome.

Good XD

Ah, yes. Not paying it forward in the sense of always looking back to the past, trying to replace him with someone else, making my choices because of him. But paying it forward in the sense of not looking back into the past to try and repay an impossible debt but looking forward and accepting that what good I've been given can flow trhough me, forward, with the young friend I am in that moment.

Perfectly said. That's exactly what I mean yeah. You should always look forward and make sure you're giving yourself to them. And not look back at a past you can't change (and shouldn't! Because that's what made who you are today). You need to pay your debt by well.. Not paying your debt? Not for them at least, but by being there in the moment for the people are there for you right now in the present.

Wouldn't that mean there's no accountability? How could you judge anyone if they always simply do "their best"?

I think the point is that you can't. And nobody can neither. That's just how it works. The only person that can held you accountable by your actions is yourself. If you're trying to do your best you're already doing your best. If you're trying to be there you're already doing your best. If you're trying to be a good person an friend you're already doing your best. The only way you can not do your best is if you're doing something bad on purpose. If you're ignoring on purpose, hurting on purpose. And in that case I don't think you would be worried if you're doing our best or not. You wouldn't care if you're doing your best or not. Because then it wouldn't matter for you. In that case, you would know. (And I don't think that's your case btw! You care a lot for them and I can see it!)

But I'm sure there'll be delays, I atleast am going to be busier along the spring and not always able to answer quickly. And it's okay, we have our off line lives to attend to, too. It was just that sometimes new interesting members post actively for a while and then disappear for ever. I would miss you if that happened.

Awwwww. To think you would miss it means a lot to me! I promise you don't need to worry about that, I am not planing to go anywhere hahah. And yeah, it's just a part of it to have some delays here and there, I hope it's not a lot or for long tho! I would miss you a lot too and I am sure I will in the days you won't be able to answer hahah XD. But "real" life is important too I agree. (Just don't forget me t.t)

Here it is: Jeremiah and I. Huh, I started that eight years ago. How the years roll! But I think you need 100 posts to access the story section, so here's something waiting for you once you reach that goal

Oh wow that's a long time hahahah. I guess that means I have a lot to catch up O.o.
Apparently I can access it with no problem, the 100 posts must be for me to be able to make my own thread on there. So I guess it's gonna go in the opposite way hehehhe, you're gonna have to wait until I reach 100 posts to read more about my story (and hopefully by then I have actually something to write about lol)


Hope I can see you soon! It's been a pleasure!

Foreverboy DarkRedComet

[Itumeleng]

Hey there 

I guess so yeah, but if you look into it deeply, there are terrible people out there too, psychopaths, assassins and whatnot,  and I would have hoped and wished that they're not here for "a reason" or because of evolution, so it's hard to pinpoint what is what, if you know what I mean. It's hard to find the difference between being here because of a "mistake" or because of a "reason" and I mean, how do you even validate a theory like that really? But in the end, I do choose to believe the theory is right!!!

I find assassins "appearing" in our universe as a purely random glitch much more terrifying that assassins that have a rational explanation to their existance.

Understanding something or having an explanation or a theory for something doesn't make it good or bad. Just like having an evolutionary explanations for sexual attraction to children doesn't make it good or moral, neither does not having an explanation make our sexuality evil. But understanding something can help you see how it might fit in the greater tapastery of human life - or that it doesn't.

I see boylovers as something that fits, or rather boyloving as something that works. Psychopathic assassins not so much - or rather I don't see madly killing people as something that works. I would still like to understand the assassin. Perhaps then we could figure out a way for him to fit in, too.

I have to admit I've wondered about this too. Just watching movies and seeing all the absolutely insane things men do "to get some" and how the plot so often circles around "a love story" i.e. getting laid... And everyone just seems to accept that while I'm like "the fudge's happening here?!"

Exactly! It just I don't know, something i've never been exactly able to understand or process. There's some cute stuff out there for sure, not gonna say it's like 100% bad. It's just, the majority is so tummy aching that I just can't see it as them feeling what I feel when I look into a little boy's eyes, if they felt that I doubt they could do anything to hurt that cute perfect little one.

I have to wonder: how would a boyloving romantic comedy sit with me? Well, actually, I'm often ready to overlook flaws in a movie if there's a cute boy or even better a cute story about a boy - or boys! Now we just need a group of boylovers and a control group of heteros and a good selection of movies .... @Karolinska institute, you guys wanna do a new study? 

I think the question is more about "What is love?" Is the love I feel the same way you feel? Is the love I feel the same love a muggles feel? There are just so many variables you know. And my conclusion, completely my own, is that I don't think the love they feel is the same feeling we feel, doesn't seem like it to me at least, it doesn't seem as fulfilling as what we feel, as infinite, powerful, precious and life changing as we feel.

Perhaps we just got lucky in this regard The love we have is good. Highquality, premium love. 

And I think that's not something a parent feel, but neither something someone that "loves" someone feels neither, is something that only we can feel. Something so perfectly mixed and entangled, so beautifully arranged that only we are allowed to see and feel.... And that again, it's beautiful.

... but I gotta remind you that just because we have something special that others don't, that doesn't mean others might not have something different but just as special too. Life is quite a diverse tapestry, makes it altogether very beautiful.

The kids had their hands inside you? Those horny bastards!

I wish!!!!!! Hahahahah

Confess! 

That would scare me to death. I would probably turn red like a tomato and start shaking, sounds like a nightmare to me. It sounds very cute and sweet, but at the same time, I don't know, I'm so much afraid of doing anything wrong and suspicious that anything and everything scares me.

It was a little weird but not scary. First off, I had done absolutely nothing, I don't think I had even hugged the kids at that point. And secondly I think she was more intrigued than concerned, though there might have been some concern there too.

Also, a discussion I would really like to have with one of my grown up young friends: how do they remember being with me as a kid, how did it feel for them. (Taling about just being close, being together, connected.)

Oh, that actually sounds very interesting, actually might be something worth making a new post, what do you think? I mean, maybe you haven't ever reached them to ask or to know, but maybe some people out there have. Would be something very fantastic to know and read more about it.

I'm sure someone has, and there have been some YFs online who have described how they feel about their AFs. But I'm a little afraid such questions might easily make an uncomfortable discussion. Most adults suffer from childhood amnesia and having to remember things again as an adult after a long time can change how they interpret their memories.

But it could be an interesting topic! Why don't you start one

Fortunately my real life friends and everyone in the pack (a group of friends, mostly boys) has accepted this as something normal

I can't help but say yet again how lucky you are! That sounds like a wonderland to me hahahah. I don't really have boys in my life, much less a pack of it! If it's not something too much to ask, how did that ended up happening? I mean, how did you ended up befriend so many boys? and how are you okay being older and hanging out with them, don't you get afraid and nervous? Scared? (And what do you mean by accepted this as something normal? Do you mean they're okay wiht you looking and interacting with little boys? That gives me goosebumps just to think about it lol, sounds sooo scary)

Hmm, I try to obscure the details, perhaps for no real reason, but just feels safer that way. There are other adults involved, and parents too, and I've been involved for a long time so everyone knows me and I know everyone, and by now we do all kinds of things together from movie nights to sleepovers to travelling together. I think that might be the key word: involvement, giving your time and effort, in a positive way, without any strings attached. People will see, even "muggles", what is essentially a good thing, and something they can appreciate.

So, no, I'm not nervous let alone scared with these boys. Though there have been some frightening situations! Boys don't always understand that what they found nice or funny might be suspicous even under the best circumstances. So they might blurt out things, every now and then. What is accepted as normal though is hugging and (sometimes pretty "hardore") cuddling and sleeping in the same bed. So 'tis not bad 

Joke aside. Whenever I can I still try my best, if I am 100% sure nobody else is looking, when I am 100% sure they're the only ones that are able to see it. Then I smile back, A big giant smile, with eyes, mouth, the whole face. I look deep into their eyes and smile. And you can just see their little face opening up like a beautiful flower. There's nothing else in the world more purely divine than that. That smile they give back. Genuine love and happiness.

You know it's much less creepy to smile at a random kid in the plain daylight than trying to smile without anyone noticing? So I would encourage you to smile around, if for nothing else then for your own safety! 

maximes

  maximes? I'll maximes away indeed. Sometimes I think I've gotta have some form of dyslexia going on. Early dementia?

While we aren't allowed that, just finding someone for us is unworldly harder.

Comparisons. Nothing good to be found there 

But how? I don't know if I can do that....

Start with something small, like, smile more come spring. It's a good time for smiling all around.

I don't know if I can just ignore the madness, ignore the fact I might hurt them, I might destroy their lifes. Even more when there's just nothing I can do to make sure it won't happen. I really wish I can and hope I can, but I just don't know how can I ignore and move on from these feelings.

You talking 'bout smiling or bum fucking here? 'Cause I see no way that a smile could destory anyone's life.

How can you know they'll think about in the future as a good experience too? How can you know they'll remember with with warmth and not as a fire burning them alive?

Ultimately I don't. Some of my actions are more a result of lust than love. But I do love my boys and try to act on it as much as I can. And often a boy will make it plenty obvious that he wants the love and even the intimacy. And so far I have maintained a friendly relationship with majority of the boys that I've been close to as kids even when they've grown into adults.

But honestly, I sometimes think I am "stuck" between my 8yo self and my "now" self. So both makes sense, a part of me tha keeps growing just wants to life a calm and sweet life, just wanna run around in the grass, just wanna dance and smile and be happy. Just wanna be a little boy.

But do you want to be "just" a little boy with another little boy? Or would you enjoy being bigger, like being able to lift him up and hold him, even want to be the bigger one?

A lot of muggles think it's offensive when adults treat them as they're kids, but honestly I kinda like it. When you explain things to me like I am 5yo, when you try to be overly nice to me, that brings me joy and makes me feel complete for a little second, makes me forget the way life is. And that's how I try to treat others too, if they don't like their problem hahahah, but I always try to treat everyone very nice and well, how I think I would've have liked to be treated.

Ah, sounds like I've mansplained something to you but that you've not felt bad about it, eh...   

I saw it!!! I really loved it hahah. I am not even gonna lie, I might someday steal that and tell a little boy that exact phrase XD (If the stars ever align of course)

Steal away! I've prob stolen at least half the stuff I use myself anyway, most of the time without realizing it.

OOHHHHH. Wow that took a while, [ ... ]

Either way, I am really thankfull you reminded me of that.

I'm happy to have been able to remind you  I'm sure you'll one day hold a little boy in your arms and feel that perfect loving peace again.

I kinda disagree with you. I mean, I agree that we must move forward, even if we have that pain inside, that's just the nature of life. Almost everyone out there have some sort of pain inside they must embrance and master every single day. Some pain they must ignore and smile on top of it. But I think it's important to remember the pain the people important to us have caused us, the special marks they left behind. I don't mean we should only feel the pain, neither that we should forget the good times and the happiness they brought. Only that we should feel everything truly. That we should remember the happiness alongside the pain. Only by remembering the pain of losing them can we actually weight the happiness they caused and how precious they were for us. I think that's something very important, that even though you moved on that they're forever living inside of you. That even though you might love someone different now you still love them forever and ever.

It's alright to disagree.

Letting go is not about ignoring or forgetting pain, or mastering it. And besides the memories are good ones and the pain comes from something that one doesn't have, when a loved one is lost - so what's there to forget about pain? How I would describe grief is perhaps that you have to walk into it, let the pain wash over you, fill you, let yourself be broken, live that part of life as well as the happy ones. And then, one day, if you let it, the pain fades. It doesn't disappear, but it no longer fills you, no longer breaks you. A new spring comes. And one day, you'll be able to look at the marks that part of life left on you, run your fingers along the scars in your soul, and smile at what a beautiful part that was indeed. The euphoria is past. The pain is past. But this will remain with you till the end, for better or worse.

This is how I've lived it.

But that's exactly what I mean. If we must cultivate our whole being to be content, how I'm suppose to be content without having love? Sometimes I overreact to things I am sure lol. I still seek friends, I am still seeking my carrer and I am still doing a billion of things on my day to day life. I am not stuck looking for love 24/7 or anything like that. I am not that crazy hahahah.

We're all a little crazy so don't worry about it 

You cultivate the boylover parts of yourself for example here and in your fantasies, and if you don't forget about all the other parts I would say you're doing pretty well.

But like you said, we must have ~everything~ to feel happy and complete. And without love, without a little boy by my side, I just don't think I can feel that.

Not everything, just a balance between all that one is. Having everything is impossible, if you chase that you'll be lost.

Is there something little, in real life, that you could do, to express your love for boys?

Do you feel like that's wha has to happen to you if you "grow up"?

For me that's the true meaning of growing up, the true meaning of "being an adult". Forgeting how to love, forgeting how to enjoy life, forgeting the happiness in little things. Being stuck in a job you hate for money you don't really care. Busy missing out in our kids life because you were working you ass off for something numb. For me that's what growing up is, at least what I see most people defining as being an adult. And that's the kind of growing up I refuse to do.

Well, no wonder you don't want it if this is how you see growing up! That's terrible, and agreed, it happens to way too many.

Let me ask you this instead: What do you want to be for your little prince to come? Do you want to be another boy, an age mate, a friend with sweet benefits - or would you want to be something more?

So, are you scared to live your life ... because you might miss out on your life?

Kinda? I guess I am just scared to get distracted seeking only one side of the puzzle and not being able to complete it in time if you know what I mean. Like I said earlier, I still do all of that, I still seek for a better life in the other places, I might sound like a crazy weirdo that can only think about love but that's not me (at least not 100% of me heheh). I just think I am in a good place in everything else. So I am just afraid to rush and focus in any of them while ignoring the part I am missing. Using the puzzle analogy again, Let's say is a puzzle with 100 pieces. But somehow I lost 10 pieces (Oh no!!). It feels pointless to try to solve everything else if I know I have lost so many pieces. I feel like I should look out for them and make sure I have the missing pieces before actually solving the rest. Because if I will never be able to solve the puzzle without them. And who knows, what if I do solve them and when I go look out for the missing pieces I knock the puzzle in the floor and end losing everything again? (I hope you can understand it lol)

A puzzle! What a good metaphore for life! But the thing you've gotta understand is that you will not finish the puzzle of life. You'll lose some pieces, others will never seem to fit, and you might knock the whole thing down at some point - or several times!  So instead of trying to be perfect you should just enjoy working on the puzzle, fit a piece here, another there, have fun puzzling it out and marvel at the beautiful vistas you're revealing with your hard work, even if it might never be finished.

Hmmm, I promise I will do my best to finish it! I hope there's no bad ending tho t.t. Thanks again for finding me some links! I very much appreciate it, will definitely start reading as soon as I can! Even tho I might not finish stuff sometimes I still enjoy reading a lot XD

It's not an easy book either, I suppose, but I just love they way love is described in it. i'm convinced so will you. But you will need to finish it! If you stop you will be missing out. And feel worse for it.

Christian Convery... ? ... Oh, Sweet Tooth! (Thanks Google!) My goodness that boy is hot! And he posts sexy stuff? Uhuh! Naughty!

YESSSS!!!!!! He is fantastic. My dream boy, like woooooooow. I would throw myself in front of a train for him lol. He is not just sexy and hot, he has a very sweet and endearing personality, he is honestly like 1 in a million. And whaaaaat, have you never seen his pictures? He is like 99% of the time shirtless and.... god.

Goodness! Is no one supervising his social media! We could volunteer together, you know, and help him figure out how much skin he should show publicly and what material would be just for our eyes  Extensive testing and reviewing needed though...

Hmmm... I guess I can try? I mean, if you technically give me person there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. I don't think nobody ever has given me permission to think about them naked lol, so thanks a lot!

I used to masturbate to that very picture as a teenager, so you 100 % have my permission to do the same. Need more details? Balls, I suppose average, visible, hanging a little, not a big dick, but you could clearly see that is has a shaft, a head and then a bit of puckered foreskin at the end. I think I was grinning. A little tanned but not a a lot, pleasant medium for a white boy. And, oh, tan lines, those are hot!

And to think this was a prefectly normal thing back then. We've become a very oppressive society when it comes to children's bodies and sexuality.

And it appears to me I'm not really "the most important person" in anybody's life - part of me wishes there was someone like that for me.

I think it's just a matter of time until you can find it someone like that.

You are very sweet 

Also I hope you recognize you're a very important person in my life right now! I might not know a lot of you, not know where you live or who you are. But you're still very important in my life. Just being able to chat like this has been fantastic and not something I was expecting. Feels like I am drinking a beer in an old bar and just putting out random chat with an old friend of mine. Without any censorship or any being afraid to be who I am, it's honestly pretty great!. I mean, every time I reply I am pretty sure I spend like, a few hours just reading everything and making sure it's perfect, I think that already says a lot hahah. I hope we can keep doing this more and more XD.

Thank you! I do feel the same way, it's really nice having someone to engage me in discussion like this. I'll buy the next round!

Hmmm, I understand it yeah. I always try my best to be a good friend and help everyone around me. But I never looked into it like that. and yeah the big problem is still being able to interact with boys without being afraid of the future. It's scary, but I agree is probably the only way to ever find someone. But god it's scary my friend.

We'll talk about it until it starts to feel a little less scary. And then you'll do little, brave things untill they feel perfectly normal. That's my twelve step boylover program!

Love is in the actions I take for my boys, not in posessing them. Of course I will be sad when I'll no longer be able to be with them but I am not afraid of that.

I think for me it works it a bit different. I feel stuff either 0% or 100%. So if I love I love it deeply. And that comes with being afraid to lose them. Of course I know I need to control that feeling. I agree with that. And I agree I shouldn't let that guide me or make me do anything dumb out of fear. But I don't think I can love without that fear. Because is just part of it, at least for me I think.

We don't need to control our feelings, we just need to experience them, perhaps one might even say to surrender to experience them without letting them control us. So it's okay to be afraid even when you don't really need to. And perhaps one day you'll see you don't need to be afraid of the loss.

And don't take me for a cyncic! I've fallen helplessly in love just this autumn, didn't think that would happen like this again, and boy this is the most bizarre experience! When he smiles at me it's like the spring sun warming up and blinding me, making me numb with happiness. I loiter about and come up with absolutely silly excuses just to get the chance to see him, perfeclty well just like a fool. And when he doesn't notice me or smile - or I think he doesn't - it feels like the whole world's crumbling around me, my mind going rounds with "he must hate me!". My heart speeds up at the thought of him.

And at the same time I cannot help but laugh at myself. It's so utterly silly! But I can't help it. So I imagine my adult self patting my boy self on the head, smiling a crooked smile - that would annoy me! - and saying "it's gonna be alright champ".

And at the same time I can imagine the end. The circumstances do not favour this relationship at all, though so far he has kept surprising me. But I accept the end, too. Makes the moments I share with him all the more precious.

Wouldn't that mean there's no accountability? How could you judge anyone if they always simply do "their best"?

I think the point is that you can't. And nobody can neither. That's just how it works. The only person that can held you accountable by your actions is yourself. If you're trying to do your best you're already doing your best. If you're trying to be there you're already doing your best. If you're trying to be a good person an friend you're already doing your best. The only way you can not do your best is if you're doing something bad on purpose. If you're ignoring on purpose, hurting on purpose. And in that case I don't think you would be worried if you're doing our best or not. You wouldn't care if you're doing your best or not. Because then it wouldn't matter for you. In that case, you would know. (And I don't think that's your case btw! You care a lot for them and I can see it!)

That would be pretty black and white, eh? And it might appear to be a pleasant way of looking at life, no judgement, always at your personal best, unless clearly a sociopathic monster. But I have to find it false.

We need accountability. We need to be able to say, for example, that killing people is not good - but is it though, under some circumstances? War? Defending your beloved boy from a bear? Or from another human? Or that consent matters - though what then is consent, how to you define it, how do you give it, or make sure? And sometimes despite the best intentions or efforts we end up hurting others - and we're still responsible for our actions - or are we, fully, how does say illness play into that responsibility? Shouldn't you do better, in any case, if you caused hurt?

There's a lot of grey area in life and it's difficult to navigate. And lot of imperfection, I find it we rarely do our best. That's where compassion comes in. It tempers our moral imperatives with empathy. And we need to have compassion for ourselves, too. Sometimes that's the hardest part!

(Just don't forget me t.t)

That's certainly not going to happen!

Take care! Till the next time

Itu

[DarkRedComet]

Hello hello! How are you doing? XD

I find assassins "appearing" in our universe as a purely random glitch much more terrifying that assassins that have a rational explanation to their existance.

Uhhhhh I don't really know what is your point here hahah, what do you mean with assains that have a rational explanation to their existance? I don't think in no way, shape or form an assassin can actually have a rational explanation for existing.

Understanding something or having an explanation or a theory for something doesn't make it good or bad. Just like having an evolutionary explanations for sexual attraction to children doesn't make it good or moral, neither does not having an explanation make our sexuality evil. But understanding something can help you see how it might fit in the greater tapastery of human life - or that it doesn't.

Yeah I get that, is just very hard sometimes you know, when society as a whole defines us as something terrible, evil, the worst of the worst, monsters. It's just very hard to see ourselfs, to see myself, as an human being, as someone that deserves love and happiness just like everyone else. As someone that never choosed this path but that it also doesn't really have anywhere else to go you know?

I see boylovers as something that fits, or rather boyloving as something that works. Psychopathic assassins not so much - or rather I don't see madly killing people as something that works. I would still like to understand the assassin. Perhaps then we could figure out a way for him to fit in, too.

But fit in, works.... Where? Because I don't really see on my day to day life that. Like, I get it that we can a lot of times help the boys out. That a lot of times they're in need as much or even more than we are. But something that "fits in" I think it's a litle bit of a stretch really. We do our best to do the right thing, we do our best to help them the most we can and love them more than anything else. But in the end we don't really fit in. Not that I know at least.

I have to wonder: how would a boyloving romantic comedy sit with me? Well, actually, I'm often ready to overlook flaws in a movie if there's a cute boy or even better a cute story about a boy - or boys! Now we just need a group of boylovers and a control group of heteros and a good selection of movies .... @Karolinska institute, you guys wanna do a new study? 

Hahahah, I have to agree with that. Maaan little boys in movies are the best. Even more when they're focused on them! Not gonna lie sometimes I just mindless scroll trought the TV for like hours and hours just trying to catch anything that has a cute boy on it, just so I can have that warm feeling on my chest, even if it's just for a little second. There's actually a few very cute movies out there. Have u seen North Sea Texas? It's one of my favorites. There's also a new one from A24 called Close that should release very soon, but I'm not sure I'll have the time for it. (and the guts! I always get depress in the end for like a long time, makes me feel very lonely.)

Perhaps we just got lucky in this regard The love we have is good. Highquality, premium love. 

I wouldn't say lucky exactly. I would maybe like compare us as like gold miners and them as like farmers. They have their kind of love pretty much always and all the time, for pretty much anyone out there. It's not bad and it makes good money, but it's never fantastic. But for us the love is much more rare. It's not easy to find and it takes a lot of time and effort. A lot of times we go trough most of our lifes without it. But when we do find it it's the best thing in the whole universe. A little bit of our gold love can overpower an entire life of their "normal" love in a second. It's a harsh life, it's a hard life. But when it happens... It's more rewarding than anything else they might even think they can feel.

... but I gotta remind you that just because we have something special that others don't, that doesn't mean others might not have something different but just as special too. Life is quite a diverse tapestry, makes it altogether very beautiful.

Not saying they don't. I'm sure for them is something extraordinary a lot of the times. I'm sure what they feel is big, fantastic and amazing. Just saying that for me that love isn't enough anymore. It could never be. After tasting the most rarest of the fruits, reached the most deepest of the sea. How can we go back to the simple life they live? I don't think we can ever be like them anymore. And I don't say that as a bad thing. I don't hate muggles, as much as they might hate us sometimes, they're still precious to me and some very precious friends, even if I am not for them.

Confess! 

Let's be honest, if they had their hands *inside* of me I wouldn't be here complaing about my life heheheh XD.

It was a little weird but not scary. First off, I had done absolutely nothing, I don't think I had even hugged the kids at that point. And secondly I think she was more intrigued than concerned, though there might have been some concern there too.

I think it's less about "what I did wrong" and more about "what they're saying to me". It's not about if I looked at them, touched or did anything. I am very shy and scared. So if anyone ever asked me something like that I would get extremely red and shaky even if I did nothing wrong. It's just something I have a lot of trouble dealing with.

I'm sure someone has, and there have been some YFs online who have described how they feel about their AFs. But I'm a little afraid such questions might easily make an uncomfortable discussion. Most adults suffer from childhood amnesia and having to remember things again as an adult after a long time can change how they interpret their memories.

Oh I never considered that. But yeah I agree that can happen pretty easily. For a long time I had to deal with the feelings for the 7yo all at once. At the start I didn't really remembered anything, everything was "locked away" and suddenly everything bursted like a river and made me drown. Was something very hard to conceptualize and understand, even to this day I still struggle a bit with it.

But it could be an interesting topic! Why don't you start one

Hmmm, I might!! Not doing it right now because I don't think I have time to answer it. But probably hopefully by next message it's gonna be up!!

Hmm, I try to obscure the details, perhaps for no real reason, but just feels safer that way. There are other adults involved, and parents too, and I've been involved for a long time so everyone knows me and I know everyone, and by now we do all kinds of things together from movie nights to sleepovers to travelling together. I think that might be the key word: involvement, giving your time and effort, in a positive way, without any strings attached. People will see, even "muggles", what is essentially a good thing, and something they can appreciate.

If you feel safer feel free to PM me! or if you don't all good I understand it. I understand your words and what you mean by involvement. What you mean by giving your time and effort for them. But at the same time it's just something that I can't really understand how to do that. I am single, I barely have friends, much less friend that have kids. So it's just very impossible for me to understand how to do that, where to do that. How to help them, be with them. How to get closer to them and love them. When there just doens't seem like there's anywhere out there for that.

Connecting with that is something I wanted to discuss with you. I don't really know the details of your romantic life right now, so I don't really know if it applies to you or not. You might have one (or more O.O) YF and just be something you don't struggle or feel. But what do you do when it hurts? How do you deal with it? Somedays is okay, most days are okay. But on the days that there's a blackhole in your heart, on the days you feel completely utterly alone. On the days that feel like someone is scratching and ripping your heart appart. How do you deal with the pain, the void, how do you deal with all of that? Because I just haven't found a way to do that and it hurts so fucking much. It's hurting a lot today and I just don't know what to do. So that's why I ask.

So, no, I'm not nervous let alone scared with these boys. Though there have been some frightening situations! Boys don't always understand that what they found nice or funny might be suspicous even under the best circumstances. So they might blurt out things, every now and then. What is accepted as normal though is hugging and (sometimes pretty "hardore") cuddling and sleeping in the same bed. So 'tis not bad 

WHAAAAT. That's not fair!!!! I want that hahahah. Even just cuddling and sleeping with them sounds perfect to me. You're lucky. So fucking lucky. Just wish I could have a tiny bit of that.

You know it's much less creepy to smile at a random kid in the plain daylight than trying to smile without anyone noticing? So I would encourage you to smile around, if for nothing else then for your own safety! 

I'm trying to do that, it's just very hard, the fear fills me and I just don't know how to do or react in those times.

maximes? I'll maximes away indeed. Sometimes I think I've gotta have some form of dyslexia going on. Early dementia?

We must have the same sort of dyslexia lol. Cause I was completely lost and had to look everything to understand what you were talking about, I hadn't even noticed hahahah.

Comparisons. Nothing good to be found there 

Agreed. But still the truth tho. At least looks like it to me.

Start with something small, like, smile more come spring. It's a good time for smiling all around.

I can try that I guess. Can't see it doing much tho.

You talking 'bout smiling or bum fucking here? 'Cause I see no way that a smile could destory anyone's life.

"bum fucking" Hahahahah. Let's pause for a second and appreciate. That's the cutest and funniest description to boy sex that I have ever heard in my life. It made me giggle enough that I probably woke up the neighbourhood lol. Thanks for that XD.
Moving on, yes I am talking about bum fucking XD. Or more exactly, a relationship with a boy in general. Not only bum fucking, but the whole deal. Kissing, hugging, loving. All the good and the bad and everything in between. And of course, how that could destroy their lifes, most of the time not because we did anything wrong. but the way society can makes them feel. It's something we can't control or know.... And that's just scary. I don't know if I can deal with that.

Ultimately I don't. Some of my actions are more a result of lust than love. But I do love my boys and try to act on it as much as I can. And often a boy will make it plenty obvious that he wants the love and even the intimacy. And so far I have maintained a friendly relationship with majority of the boys that I've been close to as kids even when they've grown into adults.

That makes me a little bit better I guess. But I still don't know if I can just be okay wiith it. As much as I want to love them... Either way isn't like I have had any chance and most likely never will the way life is going. Just feel like I can see less and less the opportunity of ever having anything.

But do you want to be "just" a little boy with another little boy? Or would you enjoy being bigger, like being able to lift him up and hold him, even want to be the bigger one?

I think it's a little bit of both. In a perfect world I would love being just a little boy with another boy. Being just one and one with him. Being just his lover, just his soulmate. But I wouldn't say I would hate being the bigger one, lifting him up against a wall. Kissing him, throwing him up in the air and seeing him giggle. I'm not against that at all, I would even enjoy it. But if I could just be a boy I would. In a heartbeat. (I would also DIE to have a boy topping me, but lets not get into details O.O)

Ah, sounds like I've mansplained something to you but that you've not felt bad about it, eh...   

Heheheh, feel free to do that, sometimes my brain is very very potato too XD. I don't think I would ever get offended or feel bad about it.

I'm happy to have been able to remind you  I'm sure you'll one day hold a little boy in your arms and feel that perfect loving peace again.

I hope you're right about that, I really do. It's the only thing I truly want and need.

Letting go is not about ignoring or forgetting pain, or mastering it. And besides the memories are good ones and the pain comes from something that one doesn't have, when a loved one is lost - so what's there to forget about pain? How I would describe grief is perhaps that you have to walk into it, let the pain wash over you, fill you, let yourself be broken, live that part of life as well as the happy ones. And then, one day, if you let it, the pain fades. It doesn't disappear, but it no longer fills you, no longer breaks you. A new spring comes. And one day, you'll be able to look at the marks that part of life left on you, run your fingers along the scars in your soul, and smile at what a beautiful part that was indeed. The euphoria is past. The pain is past. But this will remain with you till the end, for better or worse.

I think perhaps we're talking about the same thing but with different words.That's pretty much what I was talking about too. (tho your words are beautiful! I really love the way you describe stuff! It makes my tummy happy to read, I can fee the pain and the happiness trough your eyes)

We're all a little crazy so don't worry about it 

For the good or for the bad hehehe XD.

You cultivate the boylover parts of yourself for example here and in your fantasies, and if you don't forget about all the other parts I would say you're doing pretty well.

Well like I said before I don't really have "fantasies" (not that I don't want, but bad bad brain feels bad for it), but sure I am here a few times every week. But I wouldn't say I am doing pretty good. Not when there's pain that just refuses to fade. This harsh dark hand ripping and hurting me every second I breath. Doing pretty well is the thing I am not doing I think.

Not everything, just a balance between all that one is. Having everything is impossible, if you chase that you'll be lost.

Either way when there's not even a tiny bit of a little boy... I just can't be happy.

Is there something little, in real life, that you could do, to express your love for boys?

I don't think so? How could I ever do that? I don't really have many boys in my life, and the ones that I have I could never love like that. Not because I can't feel that love for them. But more because they're like family to me. Sons of friends and whatnot. That would never end well to neither of us.

Let me ask you this instead: What do you want to be for your little prince to come? Do you want to be another boy, an age mate, a friend with sweet benefits - or would you want to be something more?

I would want to be everything to him. Someone he truly loves and desires. Not just someone that is there and it feels nice. I want to make his heart bump fast. Make he feel warm and fuzzy inside. That when he looks inside my eyes nothing else matters. I want to be his soulmate, his love and protector. I want to barricade him from this bad bad world and see he giggle. I want to one day take his hand, and be on his side forever if so he wishes. I want to be someone he will never forget, someone he will forever miss. A love that he might never understand completely but that will always be there, in the good and the bad.

A puzzle! What a good metaphore for life! But the thing you've gotta understand is that you will not finish the puzzle of life. You'll lose some pieces, others will never seem to fit, and you might knock the whole thing down at some point - or several times!  So instead of trying to be perfect you should just enjoy working on the puzzle, fit a piece here, another there, have fun puzzling it out and marvel at the beautiful vistas you're revealing with your hard work, even if it might never be finished.

BUT I NEED IT TO BE PERFECT! Hahahah, I am a perfectionist in almost anything. But I understand what you mean yeah. It's just really hard to overlook everything else when there's this pain inside that never seem to fade. I don't think I can be without a boy, I just don't think I can.

It's not an easy book either, I suppose, but I just love they way love is described in it. i'm convinced so will you. But you will need to finish it! If you stop you will be missing out. And feel worse for it.

Hahahah, I just need to find the time for it!!!!

Goodness! Is no one supervising his social media! We could volunteer together, you know, and help him figure out how much skin he should show publicly and what material would be just for our eyes  Extensive testing and reviewing needed though...

I think they either don't care or use it as a marketing campaing lol. It's like 90% shirtless hotness content...

I used to masturbate to that very picture as a teenager, so you 100 % have my permission to do the same. Need more details? Balls, I suppose average, visible, hanging a little, not a big dick, but you could clearly see that is has a shaft, a head and then a bit of puckered foreskin at the end. I think I was grinning. A little tanned but not a a lot, pleasant medium for a white boy. And, oh, tan lines, those are hot!

Oh boy.... O.O I'm gonna drool lol.

And to think this was a prefectly normal thing back then. We've become a very oppressive society when it comes to children's bodies and sexuality.

Right? That's just sad to think about... And to think once upon a time the greeks or whatever ( I know like nothing about story lol, but I swear I read it somewhere) were totally okay with older guys having relationships with young boys, they even saw it as a good thing... Oh to live in those days.

You are very sweet 

You are very sweet too!! What I am suppose to do? XD

Thank you! I do feel the same way, it's really nice having someone to engage me in discussion like this. I'll buy the next round!

Maybe a little glass of boy nectar next time XD heheheh.

We'll talk about it until it starts to feel a little less scary. And then you'll do little, brave things untill they feel perfectly normal. That's my twelve step boylover program!

Hahaha, sign me up!! What if it doesn't start feeling less scary tho? I mean, I can barely look at them... Got a long way to go.

We don't need to control our feelings, we just need to experience them, perhaps one might even say to surrender to experience them without letting them control us. So it's okay to be afraid even when you don't really need to. And perhaps one day you'll see you don't need to be afraid of the loss.

But without controlling them I feel like I might just drown in them so deeply I won't be able to come back from it. Even the fear, the love, if just let myself feel.... I don't think I could just feel anything else you know? Everything is so overpowering and overwhelming.

And don't take me for a cyncic! I've fallen helplessly in love just this autumn, didn't think that would happen like this again, and boy this is the most bizarre experience! When he smiles at me it's like the spring sun warming up and blinding me, making me numb with happiness. I loiter about and come up with absolutely silly excuses just to get the chance to see him, perfeclty well just like a fool. And when he doesn't notice me or smile - or I think he doesn't - it feels like the whole world's crumbling around me, my mind going rounds with "he must hate me!". My heart speeds up at the thought of him.

That is just beautiful... There's nothing better in this life than that really. I won't even lie to you and say I am not feeling those feelings too because I am. But is for someone I shouldn't feel and can't feel. So it's a lot harder on me. It's the little toddler I've spoken about a few times, the silly boy that kissed and licked my lips once, the one that made me fall in love when I thought I couldn't and shouldn't. The one that showed me there's no other path other than this for me. And he uses and abuses me and every single time  and I am just speechless. The way he looks into my eyes, the way he smiles and giggles. The way when I'm just cuddling with him that he starts rubbing his arms and hands caressing for me like the way I do to him... Man he is perfect in every single way. He is soft and kind, sweet and nice... But on top of being a toddler he is like a son or nephew to me (aka family related). And I just can never love him, doesn't matter how much I want to.

And at the same time I can imagine the end. The circumstances do not favour this relationship at all, though so far he has kept surprising me. But I accept the end, too. Makes the moments I share with him all the more precious.

I hope you're more lucky with yours than I am. And I hope you can one day love and give him everything... Because I don't think I can.... Not now and probably not ever really :/

That would be pretty black and white, eh? And it might appear to be a pleasant way of looking at life, no judgement, always at your personal best, unless clearly a sociopathic monster. But I have to find it false.

That's how I look at life I guess. Trying to look at it in the best way I can. When everything else fails that's the only thing that's left really.

We need accountability. We need to be able to say, for example, that killing people is not good - but is it though, under some circumstances? War? Defending your beloved boy from a bear? Or from another human? Or that consent matters - though what then is consent, how to you define it, how do you give it, or make sure? And sometimes despite the best intentions or efforts we end up hurting others - and we're still responsible for our actions - or are we, fully, how does say illness play into that responsibility? Shouldn't you do better, in any case, if you caused hurt?

But that's when the problem begins, accountable for whom? You can't ever make everyone happy. So the best you can do is the people around you happy and yourself happy. If loving a boy is good for you and for the boy, then that's something good on my view. The same thing applies almost everywhere. It's not about next time is about the right now. You shouldn't hurt yourself and think you did badly when you didn't knew you could even do better. But now that you see that, now you're accountable for doing better, because now you know you can do it. I Think that's pretty much it, what can you do when you do it.

There's a lot of grey area in life and it's difficult to navigate. And lot of imperfection, I find it we rarely do our best. That's where compassion comes in. It tempers our moral imperatives with empathy. And we need to have compassion for ourselves, too. Sometimes that's the hardest part!

Different path to the same ending. For me everyone does their best. and that's where we should have compassion for others. Because if they did their best and I did my best too. I need to be able to understand that and be a little bit more okay with it. Even if I think they should have done better. Maybe they just couldn't or didn't knew how.

That's certainly not going to happen!

You better!!!

Something before I go that I am struggling a lot to deal with. I am not a person that really cares for how I look. At least not most of the time, since I only like boys and being with one still feels impossible to me.

(something that might hopefully change, but a long way to go still, still no idea at all how to even approach, find or be around boys)

Anyway. In your opinion, what boys like the best? Would you say is someone that looks "cute" and childish, someone that looks and acts like one of them? Or someone that looks "hot", that is well taken care of, wears nice clothing and attracts attention from everyone else too. Just something I've been thinking a lot about recently the more I think on the idea of being with a boy. Is there anything I should put more effort twoards? Does even matter? I like both and I would feel okay with either one, just I guess trying to find a second opinion on it. Not that I want to be a boy magnet or anything, but you know, if there's anything I can do to help my chances.... why not hahaha. I need all the help I can get XD.


Bye bye, hope I can see you soon! Take care!

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.

[Itumeleng]

Hello hello! How are you doing? XD

Hey there! I'm alright, a little tired, trying to adjust myself to a sensible rythm once again, heh.

Uhhhhh I don't really know what is your point here hahah, what do you mean with assains that have a rational explanation to their existance? I don't think in no way, shape or form an assassin can actually have a rational explanation for existing.

A dog growls and snaps at men - because his previous owner, a man, mistreated it. A boy has trouble regulating his behaviour - because his relationship with his parents didn't allow him to learn that. An assassin kills a cartoonist - because he sees no other way to bring honour and properity to his family.

These are things I can understand, or at least imagine I understand. And that understanding gives me power. I might be able to retrain that dog. I would very likely be able to help that boy to calm down. We as a society might try to educate and feed people even when - or is it especially when? - they are different from us, hopefully open their eyes to wider possibilities and then perhaps avoid having quite as many killers among us.

Yeah I get that, is just very hard sometimes you know, when society as a whole defines us as something terrible, evil, the worst of the worst, monsters. It's just very hard to see ourselfs, to see myself, as an human being, as someone that deserves love and happiness just like everyone else.

I know. And I see you struggle with this. Change will take time. But you're working on it now 

I get it that we can a lot of times help the boys out. That a lot of times they're in need as much or even more than we are. [ ... ] But in the end we don't really fit in. Not that I know at least.

How do you mean we don't fit? Boys need love and care. We are able to help, sometime uniquely so. The world is made better. What in that equation doesn't work?

I get it society views us badly and that's not good. But we can have a place in "the grand scheme of things", as simplified above. Unlike mindless killers, how could they make the world a better place?

Have u seen North Sea Texas? It's one of my favorites. There's also a new one from A24 called Close that should release very soon, but I'm not sure I'll have the time for it.

I haven't seen North Sea Texas but did notice it on BoyMovies. I'll have to try and watch these at some point

I wouldn't say lucky exactly. I would maybe like compare us as like gold miners and them as like farmers.

Another interesting allogory! But from where I stand it looks like some farmers keep toiling in a barren land, unhappy and unfulfilled - though there are some very happy ones, too. And me, a gold miner, I seem to keep finding gold and can't just believe it's because of some special luck, rather that gold is actually pretty common.

I only say lucky because I really like gold, how it feels, the weight of it, its brilliant gleam.

Let's be honest, if they had their hands *inside* of me I wouldn't be here complaing about my life heheheh XD.

... and this is why we see so few boylovers with young friends online 
s

If you feel safer feel free to PM me! or if you don't all good I understand it.

To make this make anymore sense I would have to explain way too many details 'bout my life and where I live and what I do. Not that I'm against talking in PMs, too

I understand your words and what you mean by involvement. What you mean by giving your time and effort for them. But at the same time it's just something that I can't really understand how to do that. I am single, I barely have friends, much less friend that have kids.

So you volunteer. Coach, join big brothers, a local youth program, scouts, church, martial arts, babysitting for neighbours, mentoring, piano lessons - difficult to say what's a good option for you specifically and for your location. But I can say that you should only join with the intention of helping, doing good - not thinking of it as a dating service.

This mght be some steps away for you know but I can't see why it would be impossible.

Connecting with that is something I wanted to discuss with you. I don't really know the details of your romantic life right now, so I don't really know if it applies to you or not. You might have one (or more O.O) YF [ ... ]

There are several boys in my life I would call young friends - I draw the line at a relationship that is more special and more intimate than what boys would usually have outside their immediate family. None of these are explicitly sexual relationships. Some are still evolving, others sit comfortable where they are at the moment, and then there is Apollo with whoom I have fallen in love with, like the fool I am.

[ ... ] and just be something you don't struggle or feel. But what do you do when it hurts? How do you deal with it? Somedays is okay, most days are okay. But on the days that there's a blackhole in your heart, on the days you feel completely utterly alone. On the days that feel like someone is scratching and ripping your heart appart. How do you deal with the pain, the void, how do you deal with all of that? Because I just haven't found a way to do that and it hurts so fucking much. It's hurting a lot today and I just don't know what to do. So that's why I ask.

This is a very good question.

Some years ago there was a boy I loved and I believe he loved me, too. We clicked right away, from our very first meeting. One of my happiest memories is from the only time we went camping. In the morning I was only half awake when he woke up, next to me, and started to carefully and lovingly caress first my arm, that I had streched over to his side, and then moving further. We exhanged few words when I opened my eyes but instead just started holding hands under our duvets and kept gazing into each other's eyes. He was a very special young friend.

After a couple of years we were separeted, for good. I was desperate enough to seek out his mother on Facebook, and she was very kind in her reply, but it changed nothing. Perhaps I should have gone fully mad and straight out asked if I can take her son to see a movie or something. But I didn't. What I regret the most is never telling him I love him. I kept toying with the idea, but ultimately chickened out.

A lot of bad things happened around that time, enough that I have only recently really started to feel like I've healed. And after all the other bad stuff we got COVID with all the lock downs and what not to top it off, so at one point I spend majority of my weeks inside without seeing anyone, working remotely, living alone, and at another point I started feeling like no one would even want to see me or spend time with me.

Oh, well - a long winded way to simply say that, yes, I have known pain and loneliness. That was one of the worst times, but by far not the only one.

Back to the questions. It's very difficult to answer - that's why it is such a good question.

The first part of the answer I have already alluded when talking about pain and grief but perhaps not quite explained so let me try again.

We don't need to control our feelings, we just need to experience them, perhaps one might even say to surrender to experience them without letting them control us. So it's okay to be afraid even when you don't really need to. And perhaps one day you'll see you don't need to be afraid of the loss.

But without controlling them I feel like I might just drown in them so deeply I won't be able to come back from it. Even the fear, the love, if just let myself feel.... I don't think I could just feel anything else you know? Everything is so overpowering and overwhelming.

You seem to mention things like controlling one's feelings quite a lot. Like the original question "How do you deal with it?" I would counter that with "You don't. You let it deal with you."

One might say feelings are your body's and your subconsciousness's way of speaking to you, warning you, letting you know what you need, and expelling energy that motivates you etc. If you don't listen to the message, if you try to controll it, suppress it, it will shout louder, and louder - until you can, indeed, drown in it. So it is so, so very important to listen to your emotions, to experience them. Once the message has been delivered there's no longer a reason to shout. It might be overwhelming, at first, at times, but you will not drown.

The second part is about control, in away.Thirdly and finally I've also mentioned this while talking about letting go. Instead of forcing yourself to "not be sad" you let go of the pain - I know this might not make a lot of sense but it is such an important difference. This is how you take a break from your emotional sense, by "putting in down" or "walking away from it", you move your gaze to other things in life, whether for neccessity, to sleep, to eat, to shower, or just to live again. You can always "pick it up again" or "go back" to that mental space of pain.

Thirdly and finally I hardly ever experience just one thing at a time anymore. That sounds a bit loony too, don't it? heh. At first having a diary and reading back to what I've experienced before helped a lot when I was feeling the universe crushing me. Strange enough it was usually the previous difficult points that made me feel better - perhaps "oh, I have survived this before" kinda thing. And now I can't help remembering that there is so much more to life than the pain or loneliness I'm expriencing in the moment. And that there is so much more to me than the pain and loneliness.

I hope this makes some sense.  In addition to keeping a diary I would recommend meditation, it helps you be aware of your self and that helps you make decisions like facing and experiencing an emotion - or setting it down and looking to a different direction. As for processing your emotions I find talking like we're doing is not a bad way of working through stuff. 

Start with something small, like, smile more come spring. It's a good time for smiling all around.

I can try that I guess. Can't see it doing much tho.

 

You talking 'bout smiling or bum fucking here? 'Cause I see no way that a smile could destory anyone's life.

"bum fucking" Hahahahah. Let's pause for a second and appreciate. That's the cutest and funniest description to boy sex that I have ever heard in my life. It made me giggle enough that I probably woke up the neighbourhood lol. Thanks for that XD.

Good, we're on the same page then

Moving on, yes I am talking about bum fucking XD. Or more exactly, a relationship with a boy in general. Not only bum fucking, but the whole deal. Kissing, hugging, loving. All the good and the bad and everything in between. And of course, how that could destroy their lifes, most of the time not because we did anything wrong. but the way society can makes them feel. It's something we can't control or know.... And that's just scary. I don't know if I can deal with that.

I used to be really uncertain about, even frightened of, having sex with boys. I would dream and want and then escalate and let the boys escalate - and then pull back because things could go wrong. So things were happening but it was a struggle. And I wasn't perhaps perfectly aware of what was happening, just struggled with how much intimacy there ought to be in a relationship, feeling like I'm letting down my boys yet unable to give more. Part of this was probably beause how things had ended with Jeremiah.

Then a boy I've called Sean here came into my life and slowly seduced me - too slowly, in fact, because in the end we never had any "real sex". But he kept pushing me and I kept moaning about it on PSC, i.e. processing the situation, and the easier I felt about the idea of sex and intimacy the better and easier they became. Of course this was not the only thing but I think it was a very significant part of growing as a boylover.

So, in short, you work your way through it. Little steps. Keep walking, keep talking, keep processing. And it gets easier, better, less scary.

That makes me a little bit better I guess. But I still don't know if I can just be okay wiith it.

With sex with boys? Where do you draw the line, what's still okay and what' bad and why?

But do you want to be "just" a little boy with another little boy? Or would you enjoy being bigger, like being able to lift him up and hold him, even want to be the bigger one?

I think it's a little bit of both. In a perfect world I would love being just a little boy with another boy. Being just one and one with him. Being just his lover, just his soulmate. But I wouldn't say I would hate being the bigger one, lifting him up against a wall. Kissing him, throwing him up in the air and seeing him giggle. I'm not against that at all, I would even enjoy it. But if I could just be a boy I would. In a heartbeat. (I would also DIE to have a boy topping me, but lets not get into details O.O)

I would rather have a boy fuck me than the other way around, too. Such a hot idea!

But this business of growing up seems pretty central, here as well:

Let me ask you this instead: What do you want to be for your little prince to come? Do you want to be another boy, an age mate, a friend with sweet benefits - or would you want to be something more?

I would want to be everything to him. Someone he truly loves and desires. Not just someone that is there and it feels nice. I want to make his heart bump fast. Make he feel warm and fuzzy inside. That when he looks inside my eyes nothing else matters. I want to be his soulmate, his love and protector. I want to barricade him from this bad bad world and see he giggle. I want to one day take his hand, and be on his side forever if so he wishes. I want to be someone he will never forget, someone he will forever miss. A love that he might never understand completely but that will always be there, in the good and the bad.

Well, can we say that children need adults as they're growing up? To provide for them, things like food, shelter, protection - but also to interact with, as a counterpart that helps you grow and mature. How does that fit in with your dream? Do you see another adult, like maybe you could share parents with your little lover? Or is your dream a fantasy of a never ending summer eve, where just the two of you exist, needing nothing more, never growing up... ?

(tho your words are beautiful! I really love the way you describe stuff! It makes my tummy happy to read, I can fee the pain and the happiness trough your eyes)

Thank you thank you thank you There isn't an emoji big enough for this!

You cultivate the boylover parts of yourself for example here and in your fantasies, and if you don't forget about all the other parts I would say you're doing pretty well.

Well like I said before I don't really have "fantasies" (not that I don't want, but bad bad brain feels bad for it), but sure I am here a few times every week. But I wouldn't say I am doing pretty good. Not when there's pain that just refuses to fade. This harsh dark hand ripping and hurting me every second I breath. Doing pretty well is the thing I am not doing I think.

Sorry. I understand. You speak lively and pleasantly and engagingly, so it's easy to forget you're not feeling perfectly okay. But what I meant here was "doing pretty well" as in taking steps to process your shit, cultivate yourself - not "doing pretty well" as in being in a good place right now.

I used to masturbate to that very picture as a teenager, so you 100 % have my permission to do the same. Need more details? Balls, I suppose average, visible, hanging a little, not a big dick, but you could clearly see that is has a shaft, a head and then a bit of puckered foreskin at the end. I think I was grinning. A little tanned but not a a lot, pleasant medium for a white boy. And, oh, tan lines, those are hot!

Oh boy.... O.O I'm gonna drool lol.

Go fantasize then! Go on and have a wank! Your sexuality is part of you, an important part, and if you always feel bad when you, hmm, access that part of yourself, well, that's just not healhty.

Is there something little, in real life, that you could do, to express your love for boys?

I don't think so? How could I ever do that? I don't really have many boys in my life, and the ones that I have I could never love like that. Not because I can't feel that love for them. But more because they're like family to me. Sons of friends and whatnot. That would never end well to neither of us.

Love like what? While I encourage you to fantasize about bum fucking not all loving has to end like that. I don't see any problem with loving boys that are like family to you. A lot of my boys feel like family to me.

I don't think I can be without a boy, I just don't think I can.

Hmm, you've said this so many times that I think it pays to state... To live with a boy, you might first need to learn to live without a boy.

It's not an easy book either, I suppose, but I just love they way love is described in it. i'm convinced so will you. But you will need to finish it! If you stop you will be missing out. And feel worse for it.

Hahahah, I just need to find the time for it!!!!

Heh, it's alright if you don't - just wanting to stress that if you do pick it up, please finish it because it will be such a better experience if you do

And to think once upon a time the greeks or whatever ( I know like nothing about story lol, but I swear I read it somewhere) were totally okay with older guys having relationships with young boys, they even saw it as a good thing... Oh to live in those days.

Heh, want recommendations for a history of loving boys? I haven't read the book yet myself but it is said to be a classic.

Thank you! I do feel the same way, it's really nice having someone to engage me in discussion like this. I'll buy the next round!

Maybe a little glass of boy nectar next time XD heheheh.

What kind of bar are we in?! 

But yeah, I'm a sucker for boy spunk too, would really love to have some again

We'll talk about it until it starts to feel a little less scary. And then you'll do little, brave things untill they feel perfectly normal. That's my twelve step boylover program!

Hahaha, sign me up!! What if it doesn't start feeling less scary tho? I mean, I can barely look at them... Got a long way to go.

It will, believe me. Just stick to the program!

That is just beautiful... There's nothing better in this life than that really. I won't even lie to you and say I am not feeling those feelings too because I am. But is for someone I shouldn't feel and can't feel. So it's a lot harder on me. It's the little toddler I've spoken about a few times, the silly boy that kissed and licked my lips once, the one that made me fall in love when I thought I couldn't and shouldn't. The one that showed me there's no other path other than this for me. And he uses and abuses me and every single time  and I am just speechless. The way he looks into my eyes, the way he smiles and giggles. The way when I'm just cuddling with him that he starts rubbing his arms and hands caressing for me like the way I do to him... Man he is perfect in every single way. He is soft and kind, sweet and nice... But on top of being a toddler he is like a son or nephew to me (aka family related). And I just can never love him, doesn't matter how much I want to.

So the boy that helped you discover your true nature with a kiss is still in your life, using and abusing you - but you can't ever love him?! What?!

You need to eleborate! This sounds crazy!

But that's when the problem begins, accountable for whom? You can't ever make everyone happy.

To yourself, to your beloved, to your neighbour, to your enemy, to everyone. But, yes, you can't make everyone happy - hence the debt that can never be paid.

You shouldn't hurt yourself and think you did badly when you didn't knew you could even do better. But now that you see that, now you're accountable for doing better, because now you know you can do it. I Think that's pretty much it, what can you do when you do it.

I am not hurting myself - admitting to imperfection, to evil, it doesn't require carrying mistakes on one's shoulders forever. But we do heavily agree on "doing better now that you can".

Different path to the same ending. For me everyone does their best. and that's where we should have compassion for others. Because if they did their best and I did my best too. I need to be able to understand that and be a little bit more okay with it. Even if I think they should have done better. Maybe they just couldn't or didn't knew how.

Pretty much the same ending, yeah. But I can't help this itching feeling that there's an important difference too, somehow... But I can't quite put my finger on it.

Something before I go that I am struggling a lot to deal with. I am not a person that really cares for how I look. At least not most of the time, since I only like boys and being with one still feels impossible to me.

Me neither, when it comes to looks. Some MAAs preach looking good and being really fit and even staying young but I don't find that it matters even with women in my life and even less with little boys. The relationship, the connection, that I find is always more important.

But I do think you need to care about yourself, keeping yourself reasonably fit, clean, taken care of. If you don't do that people will notice and feel, subconsciously, that there is something wrong with you - originally probably a mechanism for spotting sick individuals.

Anyway. In your opinion, what boys like the best? Would you say is someone that looks "cute" and childish, someone that looks and acts like one of them? Or someone that looks "hot", that is well taken care of, wears nice clothing and attracts attention from everyone else too.

Boys, like all people, like it best when they are seen, when your interactions, your connection validates them as individuals, makes them feel loved, seen.

But of course looks play a part too. It's like the first step. You walk up to an interesting looking person to talk with him, but you don't stay for looks, you stay for the connection. So taking care of your looks can help in that regard. "Oh, you look so strong! You have a six pack?" "Yeah, you wanna see?" "Yeah!" "You wanna feel it?" And then you have a little boy feeling you up 

As for childish looks, I wouldn't go for it. You are an adult, like it or not, and boys know that as well. Don't offer them something false, if they are interested in you, it's you as an adult - or that's I've experienced it. Part of the wonder, for the boys, is that an adult can see them as individuals, as potential friends, as someone who matters - when most of adults don't really treat children as real people.

Not that I want to be a boy magnet or anything [ ... ] 

Of course you do! Don't deny it!

Bye bye, hope I can see you soon! Take care!

You too my friend, you too. I feel like I haven't considered my words as carefully as one might here, being tired and not having as much time as one might need. So hopefully nothing rubs you the wrong way  I am, as always, enjoying talking with you.

Until we meet again!

Itu

[DarkRedComet]

Hey there! I'm alright, a little tired, trying to adjust myself to a sensible rythm once again, heh.

Honestly same hahah, hope you can adjust soon! Been pretty all over the place here lately too.

These are things I can understand, or at least imagine I understand. And that understanding gives me power. I might be able to retrain that dog. I would very likely be able to help that boy to calm down. We as a society might try to educate and feed people even when - or is it especially when? - they are different from us, hopefully open their eyes to wider possibilities and then perhaps avoid having quite as many killers among us.

Oh okay, yeah I get what you were going for. Something that has a reason behind, an explanation. a real "motive" is easier to control and change basically. In that same case we are the anomaly tho, aren't we? I mean, I don't really think we have a real motive behind beind boylovers, the same way gays don't have a motive for liking other men, is just something we were born with and something we are never able to change. We can hide it, we can tame it, we can mute those feelings, but they're gonna be always there, don't matter what.

I know. And I see you struggle with this. Change will take time. But you're working on it now 

Working on it is a strong word, but i'm doing my best.

How do you mean we don't fit? Boys need love and care. We are able to help, sometime uniquely so. The world is made better. What in that equation doesn't work? I get it society views us badly and that's not good. But we can have a place in "the grand scheme of things", as simplified above. Unlike mindless killers, how could they make the world a better place?

I think in the end we don't really fit, we are an anomaly in this. Yes we can help the boys out, yes we might even be needed. But in the end for them we are anything but that. In the end we are monsters. We are mindless creatures. Maybe once upon a time we were more liked. More appreciated and loved. And maybe in the future we will yet again. But right now we just don't fit in. We try our best, we hide, we change, we squeeze ourselfs into little holes and shapes just so we can be a little bit more like them and a little bit more liked. But today? Today we just don't fit, we don't really have a place, we don't shine or are understood.

I haven't seen North Sea Texas but did notice it on BoyMovies. I'll have to try and watch these at some point

I recommend! Little spoiler... It has a pretty sad and unhappy ending, but overall it's pretty amazing and fantastic, I really liked (and the boys.... they're just lovely)

Another interesting allogory! But from where I stand it looks like some farmers keep toiling in a barren land, unhappy and unfulfilled - though there are some very happy ones, too. And me, a gold miner, I seem to keep finding gold and can't just believe it's because of some special luck, rather that gold is actually pretty common.

Well, that's my point. You're the kind of gold miner that got lucky. That found gold young and easily. That managed to invest that and keep growing. That were able to contract people to work for you and get more and more gold. More and more easily. But me? I haven't found a single piece of gold yet... I've dedicated all my life to it, have spent all my life savings on it. Have learned from the best and the worst. But yet haven't found anything. I probably even looked in the same places you have, probably even tried the same things you did. But in the end I just weren't lucky enough to find it. Slowly running out of money and time, and yet not a single piece of gold in my hands. A single smile.

... and this is why we see so few boylovers with young friends online 

Joke aside is probably true lol. I mean, why would they be here if they had everything they wanted?

To make this make anymore sense I would have to explain way too many details 'bout my life and where I live and what I do. Not that I'm against talking in PMs, too

I understand, that's okay. I really wish I could hear a little more about it, it sounds so unique and intriguing, sounds so impossible to me to have that happiness... Either way better safe than sorry for sure. Always be careful. Would hate to lose you! You're already a great friend to me!

So you volunteer. Coach, join big brothers, a local youth program, scouts, church, martial arts, babysitting for neighbours, mentoring, piano lessons - difficult to say what's a good option for you specifically and for your location. But I can say that you should only join with the intention of helping, doing good - not thinking of it as a dating service.

But that makes me extremely afraid. Me? A gay single dude that never dates anyone and never talks about anything in those words...It makes me scared someone will look me weirdly. That someone will consider me a bad person. That someone will catch me with the wrong eyes looking at them and spread false truths about me. I am also relatively young (very earily 20`s) so most of them would probably not allow me to join anything like that anyway. Heck I probably look and act more like a kid than most teenagers out there nowadays lol. I do babysit sometimes for neighbours and friends, but those are like my own kids to me, I couldn't ever do anything. They're both extremely precious to me that I wouldn't dare risk touching them and also from people that trust me. And doing anything like that could risk destroying my entire life.

This mght be some steps away for you know but I can't see why it would be impossible.

It's not that is impossible, just that I don't really see it fitting in my life right now. I am also very scared of the repercurtions if I ended up falling in love with a boy in such a big group like that while working with other boys and whatnot. Yes I wanna help them, yes I wanna do more than just find someone to love. But at the same thing idk if I could just do that. Also it scares me the thought the boy would tell anyone in the group in that case, other kids or adults and so.

There are several boys in my life I would call young friends - I draw the line at a relationship that is more special and more intimate than what boys would usually have outside their immediate family. None of these are explicitly sexual relationships. Some are still evolving, others sit comfortable where they are at the moment, and then there is Apollo with whoom I have fallen in love with, like the fool I am.

That sounds just lovely, even if it's not sexual by itself, even if it's nothing like that. The fact you have something with them is already amazing to me, I hope it can grow well into something even more. Or not and it keeps good like the way it is hahah. And I need more details about Apollo!!!! I love love stories heheh.

Some years ago there was a boy I loved and I believe he loved me, too. We clicked right away, from our very first meeting. One of my happiest memories is from the only time we went camping. In the morning I was only half awake when he woke up, next to me, and started to carefully and lovingly caress first my arm, that I had streched over to his side, and then moving further. We exhanged few words when I opened my eyes but instead just started holding hands under our duvets and kept gazing into each other's eyes. He was a very special young friend.

That's beautiful. I can picture every single detail of it in the back of my mind and it's just perfect. I can also almost feel the feelings. I can almost feel the heart beating and the look in his eyes. Man you need to give me some of that luck, like what the actual hell? Tell me the truth, have you done a pact with the devil or something? Cause that can't just be possible lol. SO MANY BOYSSSSSSS. THAT'S UNFAIRRRRRRR. (I'm just kidding (but at the same time I am not O.O)  Love you XD)

After a couple of years we were separeted, for good. I was desperate enough to seek out his mother on Facebook, and she was very kind in her reply, but it changed nothing. Perhaps I should have gone fully mad and straight out asked if I can take her son to see a movie or something. But I didn't. What I regret the most is never telling him I love him. I kept toying with the idea, but ultimately chickened out.

I think you should have invited yourself to take him for a movie or for lunch. Maybe for something close or even alongside his mother. But in the end you probably did the correct thing. And the chance of a brilliant future saying you love him is possible for sure. But at the same time it's words you just don't need to say it. If he felt the same he would have tried to reach you too.

A lot of bad things happened around that time, enough that I have only recently really started to feel like I've healed. And after all the other bad stuff we got COVID with all the lock downs and what not to top it off, so at one point I spend majority of my weeks inside without seeing anyone, working remotely, living alone, and at another point I started feeling like no one would even want to see me or spend time with me.

Welcome to my world my friend. Even without covid it was already like that. And now that is "gone" it's still pretty much the same. Sure I am not in a lockdown or anything like that, but everything else stays the same. I feel locked, closed, I feel jailed. I spend most of my days, my weeks, my months by myself. Without little to nobody around. I always worked remotely so that was always the case, I live by myself. Is very hard to believe anyone would like me or be around me. I feel extremely alone and weak. Broken. Most days I cry myself to sleep. Most days I just hug a pillow and imagine for a second I'm holding a little warm boy. Most days are very hard to take. Hard to believe the nightmare will end. And just don't know what to do. Where to run.

You seem to mention things like controlling one's feelings quite a lot. Like the original question "How do you deal with it?" I would counter that with "You don't. You let it deal with you."

I just can't do that, or I will be in the news very quickly (And not the "good" kind). I can't put into words how much those feelings drown me, How strong and deeply they are. How powerful and painful they are. For reasons that I won't mention it's pretty much psychologically proven that I feel "too much". That I feel more than the usual person and that those feelings can quickly exponentially grow into monsters. There's just no other way to say it than this. If I let myself feel eveything, if I let those feelings "deal with me". I will kill myself. I know it because even right now I have those thoughts. Even right now it crosses my mind sometimes. Even right now i've put a blade over my arms once or twice. But I don't want that. I don't want to die. I wanna see the world, I wanna see the beauty. I wanna feel the good feelings too. And that's why I talk about controlling them soo much. Because I don't think there's any other option to me. I can't just let it go or it'll explode. And if that happens I don't know if I will be safe. If I will be alive in the end.

One might say feelings are your body's and your subconsciousness's way of speaking to you, warning you, letting you know what you need, and expelling energy that motivates you etc. If you don't listen to the message, if you try to controll it, suppress it, it will shout louder, and louder - until you can, indeed, drown in it. So it is so, so very important to listen to your emotions, to experience them. Once the message has been delivered there's no longer a reason to shout. It might be overwhelming, at first, at times, but you will not drown.

I understand what you mean by it. But like I said. I just don't think that will work for me. Because I am not a regular person that feel regular feelings. I usually already feel too much normally. And those feelings are something that by itselfs are already impossible to take it. I wanna hear it and deal with it. But I am almost certain I will drown in them and I don't think I can take that again.

The second part is about control, in away.Thirdly and finally I've also mentioned this while talking about letting go. Instead of forcing yourself to "not be sad" you let go of the pain - I know this might not make a lot of sense but it is such an important difference. This is how you take a break from your emotional sense, by "putting in down" or "walking away from it", you move your gaze to other things in life, whether for neccessity, to sleep, to eat, to shower, or just to live again. You can always "pick it up again" or "go back" to that mental space of pain.

If only it worked like that. I've spent countless nights without sleep because the feelings were too much to take. Because the thoughts were too loud that my mind refused to shut up. I am also very good at forgeting to eat. If I feel pain I don't feel hunger. And if I force myself to eat it doesn't end well... I know what you're trying to say... But it just doesn't work. There's no pause button, no safe easy way to end. There's nowhere to go and hide. No way to ignore and forget.

Thirdly and finally I hardly ever experience just one thing at a time anymore. That sounds a bit loony too, don't it? heh. At first having a diary and reading back to what I've experienced before helped a lot when I was feeling the universe crushing me. Strange enough it was usually the previous difficult points that made me feel better - perhaps "oh, I have survived this before" kinda thing. And now I can't help remembering that there is so much more to life than the pain or loneliness I'm expriencing in the moment. And that there is so much more to me than the pain and loneliness.

Well, I am sure it's easier for you that have felt such great things. That have experienced so much with so many boys. That felt love over and over again. But for me if I look back there's nothing but blank pages. Nothing but bad feelings and loneliness. Nothing but a void taking my soul day after day.

I hope this makes some sense.  In addition to keeping a diary I would recommend meditation, it helps you be aware of your self and that helps you make decisions like facing and experiencing an emotion - or setting it down and looking to a different direction. As for processing your emotions I find talking like we're doing is not a bad way of working through stuff. 

Meditation doesn't really work with me. My mind is like that movie "Inside Out" with a billion versions of me talking over themselfs lol. Talking here helps a little bit for sure. Doubt will ever be enough tho.

I can try that I guess. Can't see it doing much tho.

I smiled at a boy today (very akwardly and had nobody around lol, but I still did it). I don't know if either I looked weird or what. He kept looking at me like if he was waiting for something or had something to say. I could barely look into his eyes, It was very akward.

Good, we're on the same page then

You like bum fucking too? Hehehe XD

I used to be really uncertain about, even frightened of, having sex with boys. I would dream and want and then escalate and let the boys escalate - and then pull back because things could go wrong. So things were happening but it was a struggle. And I wasn't perhaps perfectly aware of what was happening, just struggled with how much intimacy there ought to be in a relationship, feeling like I'm letting down my boys yet unable to give more. Part of this was probably beause how things had ended with Jeremiah.

Sad to hear you struggled with it too. I guess is just the nature of it tho.

Then a boy I've called Sean here came into my life and slowly seduced me - too slowly, in fact, because in the end we never had any "real sex". But he kept pushing me and I kept moaning about it on PSC, i.e. processing the situation, and the easier I felt about the idea of sex and intimacy the better and easier they became. Of course this was not the only thing but I think it was a very significant part of growing as a boylover.

ANOTHER BOY O.O. Yeah it must be a devil pact heheh (Or you must like deliver some very strong boyloving pheromones "rubs myself in you" there we go XD)
Jokes aside, I hope I can have a "Sean" in my life one day. Someone that seduces and slowly grow with me. Someone that understands where I am and is okay with it. Someone that don't necessarily push stuff too hard, but that it also gives me a little help. I hope I get that luck one day.

So, in short, you work your way through it. Little steps. Keep walking, keep talking, keep processing. And it gets easier, better, less scary.

Well, hard when there's no boys tho.

With sex with boys? Where do you draw the line, what's still okay and what' bad and why?

Is less about the sex itself and more about the repercussions of it and what it could cause in the boys future. I would be okay having sex with a boy if I knew it wouldn't destroy their future. That it wouldn't poision their mind. That it wouldn't fuck up their whole life. Not because I think I would do anything wrong. But because society is very good at fucking things up and blaming all on them and us. Showing us as monsters and worse than the devil. And that's what scares me. It scares me to not be sure they're gonna be safe. If they could have a easier and better life without me loving them.... Why should I even consider? They're the ones that matter in the end. There's no sex and good feelings in this world that could matter more than their smile and happiness.

I would rather have a boy fuck me than the other way around, too. Such a hot idea!

Right???? A small tiny boy fucking me.... OH BOY....................................

Well, can we say that children need adults as they're growing up? To provide for them, things like food, shelter, protection - but also to interact with, as a counterpart that helps you grow and mature. How does that fit in with your dream? Do you see another adult, like maybe you could share parents with your little lover? Or is your dream a fantasy of a never ending summer eve, where just the two of you exist, needing nothing more, never growing up... ?

I would have to say the later one I think. I am okay with the idea of providing food and shelter, protection and love. But I don't think I could be okay with the idea of "sharing" a boy. First of all I don't really like muggles... And having to spend the rest of my life with one? ugghhh I don't know. Second I would love the boy a thousand times more than the muggle, and that would 100% cause trouble in the relationships. I don't think I could just love them as my son and then when he grows up "let it go". When it's your own son it's just something that don't really work, I don't think I could be with my own son in that way, and if I did, what when he grows up? What do you do? How do you feel?

In a perfect world yes, I would dream of a fantasy. A never ending story. Never growing, never changing, just forever the two of us. But I am not dumb and I know that's not possible to happen. And I am okay with the idea of growing up by his side. I am okay with the idea of loving him even as he gets older. Of being with him as long as we could allow ourselfs too. And if the stars aligned to one day marry. To stay together "until death do us part". To adopt someone we could care together, nothing sexual, no boyloving family or anything. Just a "normal" life by his side. That would be my dream.

I am okay changing. I am okay growing. But I can't do that by myself. I can't do that alone.

Sorry. I understand. You speak lively and pleasantly and engagingly, so it's easy to forget you're not feeling perfectly okay. But what I meant here was "doing pretty well" as in taking steps to process your shit, cultivate yourself - not "doing pretty well" as in being in a good place right now.

That's okay. I just got very good in hiding and masking things. People generally speaking hate hearing those kinds of stuff, so I try to be careful to not be too much to handle. And I understand yeah. I still think "doing pretty well" is a strong statement even in that case hahah. But yeah I am doing better than I was and I am trying to deal with it I guess.

Go fantasize then! Go on and have a wank! Your sexuality is part of you, an important part, and if you always feel bad when you, hmm, access that part of yourself, well, that's just not healhty.

I did fantasized a bit and imagined a bit. I might even have gotten hard O.O. But I think I am a bit far from wanking and cumming thinking about someone. That still feels very dirty to me.

Adding into that another topic! What are you thoughts about CP? I won't give any details into it so far heheh, go wild, I would love to hear your view of it.

Love like what? While I encourage you to fantasize about bum fucking not all loving has to end like that. I don't see any problem with loving boys that are like family to you. A lot of my boys feel like family to me.

Is not that I don't love them. I do. But it's such an overwhelming feeling that I don't know how to deal with it other than "bum fucking" I guess. I care for them, I play with them. Give them attention and gifts. Love them as much as I can. But it's just not enough. When I cuddle with them. When I see them giggle. When I look into their eyes. All I can feel is this overwhelming feeling. My heart beating fast. My entire body feels like it's about to bust into a million pieces. And there's no cuddling and no giggle that makes that makes that feeling relieved. It feels the same as when I am with my bladder full and I need to pee. But I just can't pee. That feeling is so overwhelming that it hurts. Even when I am with them. Probably even more when I am with them.

Hmm, you've said this so many times that I think it pays to state... To live with a boy, you might first need to learn to live without a boy.

BUT HOW???? THEY'RE EVERYTHINNGG MY MAAANNN.

Heh, it's alright if you don't - just wanting to stress that if you do pick it up, please finish it because it will be such a better experience if you do

I plan to!! I usually log here in the end of the day when I am already like very tired. So it's hard to open it and read it. Wish I could just read it like a normal book but welp. Fucking society don't allows us too.

Heh, want recommendations for a history of loving boys? I haven't read the book yet myself but it is said to be a classic.

OHHHH now I am curious!!  Of course I want!

What kind of bar are we in?! 

Heheheh, the best kind XD.

But yeah, I'm a sucker for boy spunk too, would really love to have some again

Ok you're just rubbing it in at this point XD hahahah. Just mindlessly talking about having boy spunk, like if I ever had before t.t.

It will, believe me. Just stick to the program!

Okay!!! Keep me updated in the steps! Heheh

So the boy that helped you discover your true nature with a kiss is still in your life, using and abusing you - but you can't ever love him?! What?!
You need to eleborate! This sounds crazy!

Well I knew I was a boylover and I liked boys long before him. But I was in a big denial before him. Kinda still am, but it's getting better...

Well, the start of the story. You see, I've kissed before guys, I've tried to like them. I've tried to be one of them. Tried to feel what they feel. But it just never worked. Kissing them never gave me anything other than an ankward kiss that never felt good. And for a long time I thought that maybe kissing just wasn't for me. That maybe those people were just craaazy and that kissing didn't felt good. And that was my thoughts for a long while. You see, I knew already I liked young boys. But I thought I could just ignore those feelings. I thought that kissing was more about me being broken than any of that.

That was until he came into my life. I've taken care of him before, babysit and whatnot. And even thought he always made my heart pump, it was never anything more than that. He was beautiful and perfect just like a little angel, but again just a sweet loving boy. But one day.... everything just changed. I was taking care of him like I always did, He LOVES anything sugary and sweet so I was giving him some cake or ice cream or something. And I was eating it too of course hahah. And when it was over I guess I had some on my lips still... And that little devilish creature just stuck his tongue in my mouth like it was nothing. And that was the moment that changed everything to me.

I felt what they say in the books and more. I felt something I had never felt before, and that's when I realised there was no life for me without that. In that moment there was no hiding, there was not denying, there was no lying to myself. I could see as clear as day what I felt and what that was. And for a little single moment I was in heaven. I probably paralysed for 5 minutes or more, I think I even got hard (O.O).

He is the loveliest boy on earth. He is beautiful and sweet. He is always kind, nice and sweet. I swear not a single bad thing crosses that little boy's mind, he is... perfect. He loves to cuddle and to be loved. And he loves caressing and rubbing himself, not in a sexual way. Just like I used to rub him when he was a baby, when I am cuddling with him he does the same to me and.... It's just the most fantastic thing. But of course, nothing is perfect.

To begin with he is a toddler which is a big nono (I love them, but no bum fucking with toddlers, I don't think that is okay). There is also the fact that I see him like once or twice a year, just very very litttle. And as much as I want to love him, he is like family to me, like my own son. And I just don't think I could do anything to that little perfect little boy. And in the case I did, I probably would destroy my entire life with my friends and my family.

So in the end. I am forever condemned to never be able to love him as much as I want to.

To yourself, to your beloved, to your neighbour, to your enemy, to everyone. But, yes, you can't make everyone happy - hence the debt that can never be paid.

I understand what you mean, but I don't agree with an debt that can never be paid. Don't get me wrong, I have the same views for life. I just see with different eyes I guess.

I am not hurting myself - admitting to imperfection, to evil, it doesn't require carrying mistakes on one's shoulders forever. But we do heavily agree on "doing better now that you can".

Yup! I think that's the whole point of "doing your best". Doing the best you can, now that you can and know you can.

Pretty much the same ending, yeah. But I can't help this itching feeling that there's an important difference too, somehow... But I can't quite put my finger on it.

Hahahah, if you ever find let me know! For me there's no itch to scratch so I really don't know. I see everyone as "good" as much as I can. I think that's the correct way to live in a society.

Me neither, when it comes to looks. Some MAAs preach looking good and being really fit and even staying young but I don't find that it matters even with women in my life and even less with little boys. The relationship, the connection, that I find is always more important.

Yeah it makes sense. They have a different set of eyes to things really.

But I do think you need to care about yourself, keeping yourself reasonably fit, clean, taken care of. If you don't do that people will notice and feel, subconsciously, that there is something wrong with you - originally probably a mechanism for spotting sick individuals.

Yeah I agree with that. I was never fat, dirty or smelly or anything. But I used to care very little about me, an Covid kinda made everything much worse. I am doing better now tho, I am no model, but I think I am relativelly good looking heheh.

But of course looks play a part too. It's like the first step. You walk up to an interesting looking person to talk with him, but you don't stay for looks, you stay for the connection. So taking care of your looks can help in that regard. "Oh, you look so strong! You have a six pack?" "Yeah, you wanna see?" "Yeah!" "You wanna feel it?" And then you have a little boy feeling you up 

Okay.... (as I am imediatelly signing myself for 10 years of gym, how have I never thought about that before???)

As for childish looks, I wouldn't go for it. You are an adult, like it or not, and boys know that as well. Don't offer them something false, if they are interested in you, it's you as an adult - or that's I've experienced it. Part of the wonder, for the boys, is that an adult can see them as individuals, as potential friends, as someone who matters - when most of adults don't really treat children as real people.

Yeah that was pretty much what I was thinking too. Just wanted a second opinion on it. I guess I was just stuck trying to "look young" for so long that I never stopped to think about "looking young for whom?" I aint't trying to attract a sugar daddy or anything like that XD.

Of course you do! Don't deny it!

I mean.... Maybe a little bit XD

You too my friend, you too. I feel like I haven't considered my words as carefully as one might here, being tired and not having as much time as one might need. So hopefully nothing rubs you the wrong way  I am, as always, enjoying talking with you.

Please don't ever worry about that my friend!! I might joke around a lot about the amount of boys you have or whatever nonsense I write sometimes hahah. But I am always just joking around. It pleases me a lot to read about it and to know you've had such an interesting adventure. It kinda even makes me excited for the future. As always I am enjoying a lot talking with you! There's such a long path to go, but I am happy to have someone around.

See you soon too! With boy nectar next time tho! XD

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.

[Itumeleng]

Good afternoon, good evening and good night 

Alright then, it's story time

Man you need to give me some of that luck, like what the actual hell? Tell me the truth, have you done a pact with the devil or something? Cause that can't just be possible lol. SO MANY BOYSSSSSSS. THAT'S UNFAIRRRRRRR. (I'm just kidding (but at the same time I am not O.O)  Love you XD)

Ha! Let me get you some pentagrams and The Book of Names and we'll set you straight up for a pact of your own. In the end I only paid like a dozen virgins and my left testicle for these boyloving pheromones and the Devil's luck, so that's quite the bargain, right? How do you feel about growing hoofs?

But this got me thinking what my life was like when I was around your age, twenty and something. And it feels like such a different time!

I was still reeling from having lost Jeremiah and while I did have some boys in my life it was probably closer to your situation, I wouldn't now call any of them YFs. I was lonely, at times, I still cried some nights, and I couldn't imagine a life with boys. I had a girlfriend instead and couldn't decide if I was cheating on her thinking about Jeremiah or cheating on him being with her. There's some really pathetic, sad, poorly written poetry in my diary from that time.

Sure, it was different from yours as well. I had quite the active circle of friends and for a few years we stuck together really well, oh the parties, ugh, such a different time, for better and for worse. Eventually we drifted apart and I hardly know any of the people that were in my daily life back then. Eventually relationships with some boys deepened and I made friends with Matthew who's the oldest YF I still have in my life, in his thirties.

Well, I am sure it's easier for you that have felt such great things. That have experienced so much with so many boys. That felt love over and over again. But for me if I look back there's nothing but blank pages.

We've been talking for only for a little while but I can see you certainly have anything but blank pages. We're practically working our way to the next epic triology the way we keep writing.

But I get the struggle, well, as much as one might. My diary wasn't full of stories about love, it was mostly heart break and complaining, some fear and uncertainty mixed in, a very occasional glimmer of light.

I think you forget how much older I am. I have had time, time to meet boys and make memories. And getting where I am wasn't just a stroke of luck, I would like to think I had to work for it, pay for it in pain, too.

Another interesting allogory! But from where I stand it looks like some farmers keep toiling in a barren land, unhappy and unfulfilled - though there are some very happy ones, too. And me, a gold miner, I seem to keep finding gold and can't just believe it's because of some special luck, rather that gold is actually pretty common.

Well, that's my point. You're the kind of gold miner that got lucky. That found gold young and easily. That managed to invest that and keep growing. That were able to contract people to work for you and get more and more gold. More and more easily. But me? I haven't found a single piece of gold yet... I've dedicated all my life to it, have spent all my life savings on it. Have learned from the best and the worst. But yet haven't found anything. I probably even looked in the same places you have, probably even tried the same things you did. But in the end I just weren't lucky enough to find it. Slowly running out of money and time, and yet not a single piece of gold in my hands. A single smile.

Young and easy? It was a bloody mess, most of the time, and paid for with over a decade of grief and sorrow. But sure, I was lucky. I think having experienced loving and being loved saved me from succumbing to the idea of myself as a monster, and then to depresstion and finally killing myself.

But how on earth do yo invest love? And hire people to ... do what? Get me boys? No - no, no, no. If you want to keep with this analogy I would be the gold miner who kept looking for gold, sometimes went hungry, sometimes had his mine collapse, spend cold winters in Alaska, and so on - and gradually got better at actually finding gold.

Whould this change the way you portray yourself in this gold mining story?

And then there is...

And I need more details about Apollo!!!!

... and then there is Apollo.

In a way he is the culmination of the story. Because loving him makes no sense. I met him when he was six, well, met is saying too much, I saw him. We had nothing in common. We didn't speak. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time so that I saw him, every now and then. He looked lovely. Perhaps I smiled at him - or stared too long! Or maybe it was him that smiled at me first, I don't know.

How ever, there was something, some spark that lit up a connection between us. Eventually, well pretty soon, he waved hi, the smiles turned to grins, and then one day he walked up to me and said "I am Apollo!" And I started to look forward to those smallest of moments, a look, a wave of the hand, a few friendly words - very little in the way of human interaction, less still in physical touch, I think I roughled his hair twice in the first year, tops, and give him a high five once.

But he just made me feel giddy. It's so weird, so funny, no real reason for it.  Yet when he waved and shouted "bye" as I drove by it was like a little ray of sun shine breaking through thick murky clouds. Even thinking about his name or his smile wakes up wee butterflies in my tummy.

From there thing progressed fairly quickly to the point where Apollo straight away runs to me when ever he sees me and jumps so that I can catch him and hold him for a bit. And I find myself making excuses to hang around where I might see him. And he seems to be just around the corner, popping up out of nowhere. One time, for example, he sees me and his eyes light up with a smile like the rising sun, and he walks to me, staring, smiling - and then draws his head back and bangs in forward, planting his face in my belly  Or another time, he suddenly found me as I was about to leave, lept into my arms, we hugged, and he just closes his eyes and murmurs "This is lovely."

And then came the day that we were talking, joking around - we do that now! - and the talk turns, jokingly, to the possibility of not seing him again. He goes quiet, I turn to him, and he says "Then I would cry ..." "Yeah, it would be sad---" "... because I love you." Just flooring me with one hit. "I love you".

I feel like all of this came from absolutely nothing, as if by some boyloving magic. Love, wonderful, excruciating, hopeless love.

But you know what? At least for today I'm okay with that too. He will remember me as an important, loving adult in his childhood that I have hopefully made better and easier. (I've learned he struggles at least in school.)

You know which quotation goees here don't you? My Apollo, my beloved, for you ...   

Sad to hear you struggled with it too. I guess is just the nature of it tho.

I really hope this wouldn't be what you take home with you from this conversation. But rather...

It kinda even makes me excited for the future.

 

I still think "doing pretty well" is a strong statement even in that case hahah.

Yeah, pretty well might not be the right word. You know, I think there is this one member, here on PSC, that would insist you say you are actually doing your very best.

(I know, I know, just couldn't resist the temptation to throw this back at you.  )


And that's all I've got time for now  I will write another reply as soon as I can.

In the mean time, two things keep sticking out from your writing. First is what you dream about, well, I think I might say what you expect to have with a boy. It's pretty far from where you are now or what is even possible (like eternal youth) but I get the feeling you're not much inclined to settle for anything less even in the mean time. Second is how you speak about yourself. You may say you're open to change and growth but in the next sentence you say something like "This is how I am, it's permanent." Can you notice this? What do you think of it?

It also takes me back to myself as a twenty something. Change is now such a self-evident companion in my life that the young me could not have imagined it. So, so much is possible. Have faith!

Until the next time 

Itu

[DarkRedComet]

I WANNA CRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I was almost done with the reply and I managed to kick my computer and turn it off. Good job me.

I will try my best to sound the same but I can't promise it.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Hello hello! How are you doing in this wonderful day? (not as wonderful anymore t.t)

Ha! Let me get you some pentagrams and The Book of Names and we'll set you straight up for a pact of your own. In the end I only paid like a dozen virgins and my left testicle for these boyloving pheromones and the Devil's luck, so that's quite the bargain, right? How do you feel about growing hoofs?

~Grabs a notebook and writes everything....
Hmm, 12 virgins sounds alright. My left testicle.... I mean, I have both and don't do anything with either so why not. And growing hoofs sounds more like a plus than anything... Just imagine the kinky stuff you can do.... ANYWAY....

But this got me thinking what my life was like when I was around your age, twenty and something. And it feels like such a different time!
I was still reeling from having lost Jeremiah and while I did have some boys in my life it was probably closer to your situation, I wouldn't now call any of them YFs. I was lonely, at times, I still cried some nights, and I couldn't imagine a life with boys. I had a girlfriend instead and couldn't decide if I was cheating on her thinking about Jeremiah or cheating on him being with her. There's some really pathetic, sad, poorly written poetry in my diary from that time.

Welcome to my world! Oh  wait... Welcome me to your world? Ughhh... It got even more confused the second time I wrote lol, no idea, anyway...
That's pretty much how I feel right now yeah... It's just everything very hard. Everything hurts. Everything is a pain. I do have some boys around but def not any I would ever call a YF. I feel extremely lonely. I cry myself to sleep most nights. I think about the 7yo boy, about the swimming pool boy, and many others i've felt in love in the past... It's not that I can't or don't imagine a life with boys, it's more like I can't believe it's possible to happen. I do not have a girlfriend tho (for good or for the bad). Either way I don't think poetry can ever be pathetic or bad, even if it's poorly written. It was the truth of what you were feeling and screaming in that moment, and that is just beautiful. I honestly would love to read anything you wrote if you ever feel comfortable (I can promise it won't be a one sided thing, I have some very old poetry too, so I would love to share it too! XD)

Ughhh everything feels that it sound worse than the first reply bleh, sorry about that. I promise I will do my best to not kick it again.

Sure, it was different from yours as well. I had quite the active circle of friends and for a few years we stuck together really well, oh the parties, ugh, such a different time, for better and for worse. Eventually we drifted apart and I hardly know any of the people that were in my daily life back then. Eventually relationships with some boys deepened and I made friends with Matthew who's the oldest YF I still have in my life, in his thirties.

Sorry if I made you think that I don't have friend or whatever. That is just not the case. What I meant to say is that I don't really think I am important in their lifes. That I don't think if I weren't there it would matter to them, that it would make much of a difference. In the end I still go out sometimes. I still "party". But honestly is pretty boring to me, just not a life I really enjoy living. I am very glad relationships deepend with boys for you tho. I really hope I can have that luck and that happens for me at some point. Ughhh I don't think you are allowed to call someone in his thirties an YF XD. Jokes aside that sounds wonderful to me. I hope you still have a good relationship with him!.

We've been talking for only for a little while but I can see you certainly have anything but blank pages. We're practically working our way to the next epic triology the way we keep writing.

I guess you are right about that. But pages filled with pain and void are rather unpleasant to read. Filled with depression and pain. Even for me it's a lot to take sometimes. (And about the trology.... I was thinking more about a One Piece kind of stuff. On his over 1000 episodes and never ever ending XD)

But I get the struggle, well, as much as one might. My diary wasn't full of stories about love, it was mostly heart break and complaining, some fear and uncertainty mixed in, a very occasional glimmer of light.
I think you forget how much older I am. I have had time, time to meet boys and make memories. And getting where I am wasn't just a stroke of luck, I would like to think I had to work for it, pay for it in pain, too.

I never thought about it like that.... I guess you are right. Just something it happens a lot being here. It's very hard to know other people's age and where they are in life, so I most of the time picture them as "me". So when I think about all what you've talked about, all of those incredible adventures. It feels empty when I compare to me. But if I do actually put side by side I guess it makes sense. I am okay taking all the pain and the hurt if in the end there's a beatiful rainbow tho.

Young and easy? It was a bloody mess, most of the time, and paid for with over a decade of grief and sorrow. But sure, I was lucky. I think having experienced loving and being loved saved me from succumbing to the idea of myself as a monster, and then to depresstion and finally killing myself.

I am sorry if I made it sound like that. I never put into consideration you probably struggled with a lot too. But in the end yeah, you were still lucky. Maybe not young, maybe not easy. But you had love. You had something. And I just don't have this barrier between me and the bad thoughts. Between me and the depression. Between me and thinking I am a monster. Between me and death. So a lot of times it's just impossibly hard to take it. Hard to be okay, to believe it will ever be good.

But how on earth do yo invest love? And hire people to ... do what? Get me boys? No - no, no, no. If you want to keep with this analogy I would be the gold miner who kept looking for gold, sometimes went hungry, sometimes had his mine collapse, spend cold winters in Alaska, and so on - and gradually got better at actually finding gold.

Hahahahh, I am so so sorry about that lmfao. I guess I got too much involved in the allegory that I just got lost in the middle and didn't made any sense. What I meant to say is that you got better and better at understanding boys. At being with boys. You grow and learned. And the gold you found made it all possible.

Whould this change the way you portray yourself in this gold mining story?

A little bit maybe? I guess putting into perspective I am a minor (heheheh). I am still struggling to find gold. Maybe still very young, Maybe still naive and dumb. But in the end I don't think it changes a lot what I feel. I still feel trapped and lost. Still have invested so much money. So much time and effort and haven't even found a single shiny rock that it makes me scared. Scared that it just won't happen. Afraid that one day run out of food and just have nowhere to go. Nothing to do. Just nothingness. (my last reply was better but poop poop brain)

The only good part of this is reading Apollo's story again XD

In a way he is the culmination of the story. Because loving him makes no sense. I met him when he was six, well, met is saying too much, I saw him. We had nothing in common. We didn't speak. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time so that I saw him, every now and then. He looked lovely. Perhaps I smiled at him - or stared too long! Or maybe it was him that smiled at me first, I don't know.

That's just lovely and wonderful to me... That love is just beautiful and fantastic.I guess you have noticed with the toddlers story that I love rather little boys. So knowing you meet him when he was six is just.... Wow. Just incredible to me. Makes my tummy happy.

How ever, there was something, some spark that lit up a connection between us. Eventually, well pretty soon, he waved hi, the smiles turned to grins, and then one day he walked up to me and said "I am Apollo!" And I started to look forward to those smallest of moments, a look, a wave of the hand, a few friendly words - very little in the way of human interaction, less still in physical touch, I think I roughled his hair twice in the first year, tops, and give him a high five once.

Awww that is just so cute to hear hahah. It's beautiful. It makes me remember a boy I've met once. Let's call him Luca. Oh man, Luca is the most beautiful boy you could have ever seen. He is like an angel. An actual fucking angel. Beautiful giant blue ocean eyes. The cutest blond curly hair. The most perfect beautiful face....  He is just perfect in every single detail. When he smiles at you is like the whole world stops for a second. Like life has no meaning other than being by his side.... Luca is just perfect.

But he just made me feel giddy. It's so weird, so funny, no real reason for it.  Yet when he waved and shouted "bye" as I drove by it was like a little ray of sun shine breaking through thick murky clouds. Even thinking about his name or his smile wakes up wee butterflies in my tummy.

I know exactly those feelings. Not only can I almost picture them by reading but yet again Luca. The smallest simple gestures makes my entire body fuzzy. Make every single hair in my body tingle. Luca is the kind of boy I would give up my entire life for in a second. The kind of boy It hurts to not hug and love. But Luca is also on the list of "Boys I can never have..." Oh Luca....

From there thing progressed fairly quickly to the point where Apollo straight away runs to me when ever he sees me and jumps so that I can catch him and hold him for a bit. And I find myself making excuses to hang around where I might see him. And he seems to be just around the corner, popping up out of nowhere. One time, for example, he sees me and his eyes light up with a smile like the rising sun, and he walks to me, staring, smiling - and then draws his head back and bangs in forward, planting his face in my belly  Or another time, he suddenly found me as I was about to leave, lept into my arms, we hugged, and he just closes his eyes and murmurs "This is lovely."

I never got that far with Luca, and I don't think I could never.... That's just beatuiful tho. Every single world is perfect. I can feel every feeling and see every smile. He sounds perfect. I would give up anything to feel those feelings you were able to feel.

And then came the day that we were talking, joking around - we do that now! - and the talk turns, jokingly, to the possibility of not seing him again. He goes quiet, I turn to him, and he says "Then I would cry ..." "Yeah, it would be sad---" "... because I love you." Just flooring me with one hit. "I love you".

WAAAIT HE SAIID WHAAATTT? HE SAID HE LOVES YOU???? MAAAANN PLEASE MARRY THAT BOY LIKE RIGHT NOW!!!! DON'T LET HIM GOO!
But for real that's just lovely and fantastic. I am sorry but I have to say it again. You are so so so lucky!!!!  You have no idea the big giant smile reading something like this has made me feel. I wish I have 1% of your luck one day. Just wow.

You know which quotation goees here don't you? My Apollo, my beloved, for you ...   

I wouldn't expect nothing less!!! That's just perfect for this XD.

I really hope this wouldn't be what you take home with you from this conversation. But rather...

It's not the only think I take from this. But it's still something very important! To think someone has struggled like I am struggling right now and were able to let it go. Were able to be okay and have so many good things... That helps me a lot. A Lot of times you see people around here and other places that are so "okay" with everything that is annoying. People that never seemed to struggle, wonder or worry. But this feels like real and to know I can maybe let it go one day too. That's enough for me right now.

Quoting myself on this XD

It kinda even makes me excited for the future.

Yeah, pretty well might not be the right word. You know, I think there is this one member, here on PSC, that would insist you say you are actually doing your very best.

Touché my friend, touché XD. And he would be right about that. I hope I am at least. Not pretty well, not the best. But just my best. And that's just enough...

And that's all I've got time for now  I will write another reply as soon as I can.

Aww. that makes me sad. Feels like it stopped in the middle. But I understand. Life can be a lot sometimes, make sure you're taking care of yourself!. Feel free to continue the rest in a separated post if you want to, mash them up together, do whatever you want to honestly but all good if you don't, whatever floats your boat hehe XD

In the mean time, two things keep sticking out from your writing. First is what you dream about, well, I think I might say what you expect to have with a boy. It's pretty far from where you are now or what is even possible (like eternal youth) but I get the feeling you're not much inclined to settle for anything less even in the mean time. Second is how you speak about yourself. You may say you're open to change and growth but in the next sentence you say something like "This is how I am, it's permanent." Can you notice this? What do you think of it?

I don't expect eternal youth from a boy (not in this lifetime at least).I am open to grow with them, open to change. What I don't want to is lose them. That's what I am afraid of. I want to have a future, a life, a family you know.... Jumping from a boy to another just doesn't seem like something I want. About settling.... I honestly don't know, for a while I wanted just the perfect and nothing less. For a while I wanted the best and only the best. But nowadays I don't think so. I might sound like I only dream of this perfect life, and yes I do dream of it. But for a boy (Like Luca or the toddler) that made me feel something I can't explain, something I can't control. I think that would be enough for me. I think would be enough for me to take the risk, to try it. Enough to see what else life has to offer. Maybe.
About the change and grow thing.... It's complicated. I am open to change, to grow. I am open to learn things and all of that. In the end what I don't want is to be forced into anything I guess. I want to change and move on when I think it's the right time. Like I said before I don't wanna be like the muggles lost into a life without love, without passion and fantasy. I am okay being a foreverboy in heart. But that doesn't mean that boy isn't allowed to grow by itself, Learn new things and improve himself every single day. I might not want to grow up but it doens't mean I am not growing. Nothing in life is permanent. That might be sad but it's the truth.

It also takes me back to myself as a twenty something. Change is now such a self-evident companion in my life that the young me could not have imagined it. So, so much is possible. Have faith!

You can be sure I have hahah, faith is the one thing I have. Because the rest.... XD.

God this was annoying, I hope I don't kick anything again. But was nice revisiting stuff, just wish I wasn't sleepy lol, if something sounded weird or bad I am sorry about it. I promise I will do better next time! XD

See you soon!!!!!

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.

[Itumeleng]

Hello!

I will try my best to sound the same but I can't promise it.

Never mind that, it's all good. Let's go!

And that's all I've got time for now  I will write another reply as soon as I can.

Aww. that makes me sad. Feels like it stopped in the middle. But I understand. Life can be a lot sometimes, make sure you're taking care of yourself!. Feel free to continue the rest in a separated post if you want to, mash them up together, do whatever you want to honestly but all good if you don't, whatever floats your boat hehe XD

Here I am again, my boat all floaty, ready to smash it all together once more

These are things I can understand, or at least imagine I understand. And that understanding gives me power. I might be able to retrain that dog. I would very likely be able to help that boy to calm down. We as a society might try to educate and feed people even when - or is it especially when? - they are different from us, hopefully open their eyes to wider possibilities and then perhaps avoid having quite as many killers among us.

Oh okay, yeah I get what you were going for. Something that has a reason behind, an explanation. a real "motive" is easier to control and change basically. In that same case we are the anomaly tho, aren't we? I mean, I don't really think we have a real motive behind beind boylovers, the same way gays don't have a motive for liking other men, is just something we were born with and something we are never able to change. We can hide it, we can tame it, we can mute those feelings, but they're gonna be always there, don't matter what.

Well, I don't think our assassins have a motive behind who they are either. And if talking about deeds I can see a boyloving motive behind our actions. See, different categories?

The explanation I proposed for MAAs is evolutionary, spanning generations. That's not something we can change about ourselves - with careful breeding we might be able to change it about our species. But understanding still helps, I think, helps me see myself in the bigger picture.

The examples about dogs, boys and killers were on an individual level. That we might be able to change, if undrestood. So perhaps that was a bad example

What we might change for ourselves in the present is the way we see ourselves, how we understand ourselves - from a monster that doesn't make sense to a lover with a reason for his existence. Even if the change is only conceptual it can make a world of difference, to us, and how we interact with the world around. Much like a radically different point of view might change how an assassin interacts with the world around him.

In the end we are monsters. We are mindless creatures.

Wow. You really feel terrible about being a boylover

But right now we just don't fit in. We try our best, we hide, we change, we squeeze ourselfs into little holes and shapes just so we can be a little bit more like them and a little bit more liked. But today? Today we just don't fit, we don't really have a place, we don't shine or are understood.

Of course, you are right - in the sense that we cannot just have everything we want. But nobody gets that.

Of course, you are right - in the sense that I can't straight out answer Apollo with a "I love you" and that's unfair. But live bloody well is unfair.

But there certainly is a place for me. People certainly like me. And I get to love my boys. It's good enough a fit.

So, really, you've got it wrong

... and this is why we see so few boylovers with young friends online 

Joke aside is probably true lol. I mean, why would they be here if they had everything they wanted?

It's more a matter of only having 27 hours a day.

But that makes me extremely afraid. Me? A gay single dude that never dates anyone and never talks about anything in those words...It makes me scared someone will look me weirdly.

No wonder, if you see yourself as a monster, I would be afraid too. But you are not a monster.

I do babysit sometimes for neighbours and friends, but those are like my own kids to me, I couldn't ever do anything. They're both extremely precious to me that I wouldn't dare risk touching them and also from people that trust me.

Here, do you see yourself as a monster, too? Because what is it that you would do to a boy? That you wouldn't do it to someone who is precious to you. But you would do to someone who is not[/ı] precious?

But at the same time it's words you just don't need to say it. If he felt the same he would have tried to reach you too.

I don't think you realize how controlled children's lives are, how little freedom, how little agency they have. And how well adjusted most children are to that! So, I don't blame him for not "reaching out". The words "I love you" are heavy, I couldn't find the courage to say it out loud for him, how could I expect that from him? He showed me plenty of love, in what ways were open to him, and I hope I did the same, enough to leave a lasting, positive mark in his life.

And that, for me, is enough.

Jokes aside, I hope I can have a "Sean" in my life one day. Someone that seduces and slowly grow with me. Someone that understands where I am and is okay with it. Someone that don't necessarily push stuff too hard, but that it also gives me a little help. I hope I get that luck one day.

Well, you have to realize Sean didn't understand me. He was a little boy. Very homophopic, as it was, perhaps an identity issues he will struggle for a long time yet to come. But he was starved for attention, for love, for someone to be close with, for intimacy. And I was there. Luck? I say life is messy and you make the best of it or try to, at least.

Sean is an adult now, struggling with life. I'm not sure if I was able to do enough for him - well, in a way, no. We keep in touch, some what, but haven't had the chance to properly meet for a few years.

Ughhh I don't think you are allowed to call someone in his thirties an YF XD. Jokes aside that sounds wonderful to me. I hope you still have a good relationship with him!.

No, he's not a young friend anymore, just a friend. But our relationship has fallen to, erm, we're not having such a good time at the moment. It's got nothing to do with boylove or sex, never had sex with him, it's just stuff between adults that difficult. But it's hurts, not getting along with someone I love.

With sex with boys? Where do you draw the line, what's still okay and what' bad and why?

I would be okay having sex with a boy if I knew it wouldn't destroy their future. [ ... ] If they could have a easier and better life without me loving them...

Seems like consensual sex doesn't, even in our society. And loving and sex are not the same. You can love a boy without fucking him, right?

Adding into that another topic! What are you thoughts about CP? I won't give any details into it so far heheh, go wild, I would love to hear your view of it.

Ha! It's wonderful and addictive, much of it is morally questionable, some down right evil. But then again it's just porn. I don't believe looking at a picture can per se hurt anyone.

The perils are in addiction, in not seeing the real world from fantasy, and in production when it's cruel.

Hmm, you've said this so many times that I think it pays to state... To live with a boy, you might first need to learn to live without a boy.

BUT HOW???? THEY'RE EVERYTHINNGG MY MAAANNN.

Not everything. (Can't believe you got me saying this!)

When everything starts to resolve around a single thing, and needs are burried deep, covered with wants we perceive - well...

[ ... ] But it's such an overwhelming feeling that I don't know how to deal with it other than "bum fucking" I guess.

... then it might feel like the only way to express our love is to stick a penis in an anus of little kid.

I don't want to say this is you, there's obviously more to you, but it is what our conversation has me thinking about.

I won't write much about the expectations and impossibilities. But a few words.

Jumping from a boy to another just doesn't seem like something I want.

It's not what I'm suggesting. But is your plan to find a singular perfect boy ... then anal sex ... then a family and together forever?

But I don't think I could be okay with the idea of "sharing" a boy.

Do you mean "sharing" a boy with parents? Your ideal boy is an orphan? But you don't want to be his father?

I just can't do that -

Meditation doesn't really work with me.

Would you be willing to consider the idea that it's simply something you don't know how to do?

I am okay changing. I am okay growing. But I can't do that by myself. I can't do that alone.

We can't, none of us can, change alone. We all need each other.

He is the loveliest boy on earth. He is beautiful and sweet. He is always kind, nice and sweet.

What lovely story! One might say you're lucky to have such boys in your life - even if you don't see him that often.

I honestly would love to read anything you wrote if you ever feel comfortable

Oh dear, you know, it's stuff like "ah, the sky is blue, like my heart, it yearns for thee, will you remember me" No worth the bother!

I'm sure there are some poems of mine floating around here. But the absolute best one, I wrote it about Chap and our summer evening, and that was lost in a crash! :cry

Young and easy? It was a bloody mess, most of the time, and paid for with over a decade of grief and sorrow. But sure, I was lucky. I think having experienced loving and being loved saved me from succumbing to the idea of myself as a monster, and then to depresstion and finally killing myself.

I am sorry if I made it sound like that. I never put into consideration you probably struggled with a lot too.

No need to be sorry, just want you to consider these different points of view. Put that potato to use!

What I meant to say is that you got better and better at understanding boys. At being with boys. You grow and learned.

... so that you might see it's not an impossible route for you either.

The only good part of this is reading Apollo's story again XD

Yea!

Makes my tummy happy.

Happy for your tummy

Awww that is just so cute to hear hahah. It's beautiful. It makes me remember a boy I've met once. Let's call him Luca. Oh man, Luca is the most beautiful boy you could have ever seen. He is like an angel. An actual fucking angel. Beautiful giant blue ocean eyes. The cutest blond curly hair. The most perfect beautiful face....  He is just perfect in every single detail. When he smiles at you is like the whole world stops for a second. Like life has no meaning other than being by his side.... Luca is just perfect.

Oooh, he brings up yet another boy!

But Luca is also on the list of "Boys I can never have..." Oh Luca....

It's strating to look like a long list!

WAAAIT HE SAIID WHAAATTT? HE SAID HE LOVES YOU???? MAAAANN PLEASE MARRY THAT BOY LIKE RIGHT NOW!!!! DON'T LET HIM GOO!

That's not what you do with boys!

You have no idea the big giant smile reading something like this has made me feel. I wish I have 1% of your luck one day. Just wow.

I'm glad to have made you smile. Again, it's not luck, it's a way of life. Or in other words it's not some magical inborn quality but something I have grown into.

I really hope this wouldn't be what you take home with you from this conversation. But rather...

It's not the only think I take from this. But it's still something very important! To think someone has struggled like I am struggling right now and were able to let it go. Were able to be okay and have so many good things... That helps me a lot.

Excellent! So glad to hear this!

People generally speaking hate hearing those kinds of stuff, so I try to be careful to not be too much to handle.

I don't think you have to worry about that here

See you soon!!!!!

Till we meet again!

Itu

PS:

Heh, want recommendations for a history of loving boys? I haven't read the book yet myself but it is said to be a classic.

OHHHH now I am curious!!  Of course I want!

Alright, that would Greek Love by J.Z. Eglinton. You can find it online, I think.

[DarkRedComet]

Heeyyy you! XD

This time I've got my feet very far away! I won't kick it I promise!

Here I am again, my boat all floaty, ready to smash it all together once more

I don't think grin is the best emote after saying "My boat is all floaty, ready to smash it all together once more." Hahahah, But to each their own XD.

Well, I don't think our assassins have a motive behind who they are either. And if talking about deeds I can see a boyloving motive behind our actions. See, different categories?
The explanation I proposed for MAAs is evolutionary, spanning generations. That's not something we can change about ourselves - with careful breeding we might be able to change it about our species. But understanding still helps, I think, helps me see myself in the bigger picture.

I think the problem is that then you're mixing it up motive and explanation, which I think just shouldn't be mixed up together in the same thing. Motive is something we utterly know, something that might shape us and make us do things, something that might make us see what's "right" from what's "wrong". Assassins have motives, killers have motives, criminals have motives. Either because they were raised in a society that never teached them what was right and wrong, or because they had to find a way to survive, and even when they knew it was wrong it was the only thing they could've ever done. Either way motive is something that can be changed, something that can be shaped and even be erased in someone's mind, because motive is not something they were born with, it might not exactly be a thing they had a choice on, but in the end it was something laid on them as they grew and as hard that motive might be to crack, in the end is always possible.

But an explanation doesn't work exactly like that. Boylovers, homosexuals and most mind problems too don't have exactly a motive, they never were born out of something people had to endure or were raised into. They never were born out of valors or a "bad life". Those "explanations" are just like the title says, explanations. Yes there might be a reason why we were born boylovers, either evolution or maybe even a joke from a bad God. Gays might have a reason why they were born that way too, but in the end that's the thing. We were born that way. That's what who we always were and who we will always be. Like they did in the camps, sure we can be tamed, sure we can be "teached" to not be a boylover. But in the end that earthshaking feeling you feel when you look into a little boy's eyes can't ever be erased. Because that's the nature of us. That's who we are.

The examples about dogs, boys and killers were on an individual level. That we might be able to change, if undrestood. So perhaps that was a bad example
What we might change for ourselves in the present is the way we see ourselves, how we understand ourselves - from a monster that doesn't make sense to a lover with a reason for his existence. Even if the change is only conceptual it can make a world of difference, to us, and how we interact with the world around. Much like a radically different point of view might change how an assassin interacts with the world around him.

Nono I understood. I just think it doesn't really fit exactly in the way you said it. But I agree with this for sure, Is definitely very important for us to learn to be more okay with it. To learn in the end we might have a reason to exist, as good or bad that might be. To learn how to deal with it and what we should and shouldn't do. I just society as a whole could see that too someday.

In the end we are monsters. We are mindless creatures.

Wow. You really feel terrible about being a boylover

Oh boy... I've fucked badly with this hahahah. I think I explained myself incorrectly and made you answer like half of the stuff incorrectly. Oh welp what can I do.Those words were suppose to be read in context XD. While I do think we don't really fit in and I am not exactly the biggest fan of who we are and what we are, I don't think we are monsters or mindless creatures!!

I was mainly talking about all of that with the society in mind, and what they think about us. For them we are monsters, mindless creatures, the worst of the worst. But again, I don't think that we are! I might not exactly like that about me yet in the way you or others out there might like and be okay with it. But I also don't hate myself that much, at least not anymore.

Of course, you are right - in the sense that we cannot just have everything we want. But nobody gets that.

Don't they tho? I mean, if we were a muggle and raped a woman, we would be given much less hate than we do as boylovers for simply liking little boys. For simply having something suspiscious in your HDD. Even if we never touched, looked or did anything with anyone. So even if we can't have "everything" we want, we always get the shorter end of the stick.

Of course, you are right - in the sense that I can't straight out answer Apollo with a "I love you" and that's unfair. But live bloody well is unfair.

Again, life as whole might be unfair to most if not everyone of us. But muggles cat call women all the time. They can say the most abussive and suggestive of things to them. How hot they are, how much they wanna fuck them and whatever nonsense those people think. And in the end little to nothing happens with them. We in the other end, like you said, can't even say "I love you" to a little boy. Can't tell them how cute they look, how beatiful they look. Can't even look or smile without people thinking weird things.

But there certainly is a place for me. People certainly like me. And I get to love my boys. It's good enough a fit.
So, really, you've got it wrong

Im glad you feel like that, I'm glad you have a place you feel comfortable living. I'm glad you are able to love your boys, that you are able to be who you are and be happy with it. But I don't think I've got it wrong if we look at most of us. You're on the lucky 1% that are able to have that. I don't think I have a place for me, people generally don't like me, doesn't matter how hard I try. I am not able to love my boys, and so on and so forth. And that's not a only me thing, is something that happens to most us in the same situation. I'm not saying "you" have a bad life. I'm saying "we" generally speaking have a bad life. (me included lol)

It's more a matter of only having 27 hours a day.

If we had infinte more time maybe.... But I don't think is purely a matter of having too little time. For some this is not a "forever" thing. Not that they stop loving boys, or stop thinking about boys. But that they either got "lucky" and got a boy in their lifes, and don't think there's a reason or is worth it to come back here. Or that they gave up, either literally (suicide) or by giving up the thought of ever having one. So they never show up again anymore.

No wonder, if you see yourself as a monster, I would be afraid too. But you are not a monster.

Another answer fucked up by that comment! XD. I know I am not a monster! But I still struggle with who I am. And yes I still struggle a lot with dealing with everything in a "normal" way. What is okay and what is not okay to do. I might not think I am myself a monster. But I am terribly afraid someone might do that. Terrible afraid of my future if something would ever get exposed. Most if not all my friends are pedo haters (of course). And something like that would destroy my life from the roots.

I do babysit sometimes for neighbours and friends, but those are like my own kids to me, I couldn't ever do anything. They're both extremely precious to me that I wouldn't dare risk touching them and also from people that trust me.

Here, do you see yourself as a monster, too? Because what is it that you would do to a boy? That you wouldn't do it to someone who is precious to you. But you would do to someone who is not[/ı] precious?

I am not a monster, I would never touch a boy without them wanting, never force my way into them or even "incentive" them. Is not that I would do something wrong to someone that is less "precious" to me. But I guess is just a matter of perspective. Those kids I've babysitted I've done since they were babies. I've seen them grown from little mushy things into beautiful boys. I've seen them develop and change. They're like my own kids, and just like my own kids I would never be able to love them like that. I love them but I can't be "in love" with them. That's what I mean when I say they're "too precious" to me. (There's also the fact they're from people I know, I don't think I could ever sleep with the son of a friend of mine, I could never look at his face straight, and I for sure could never have a future with the boy, marry or whatnot)

But it's different when it is a boy i've seen around, when it's a boy I haven't know since he was born. When it's a boy I don't know his parents, don't have any relation to. When it's a boy I can be more than just a father figure, when it's a boy I can see face to face and talk about things. For example bringing back my boylover dream (Christian Convery), if I were to meet a boy like that, I would be more okay meeting him, talking to him and being with him. Yes I would still have to approach him, meet his parents and whatnot. But it's just different I guess. When I can look a boy in his eyes and be able to see who he is unattached from everything else. There's no underneath father love (because I've not seen him grow), there's no other strings (because I am not a friend with his parents yet), he doesn't see me as someone he has grown into loving already (because i haven't taken care of him since he was a baby). It's like the closest of a real "adult" relationship it can get, and I think that's what I want and what I feel more comfortable with. I want to have something real with someone real, I don't wanna abuse them because I can, use them because they already "love" me in a way. I wanna grow that love, deserve that love, I want passion, something real.

I don't think you realize how controlled children's lives are, how little freedom, how little agency they have. And how well adjusted most children are to that! So, I don't blame him for not "reaching out". The words "I love you" are heavy, I couldn't find the courage to say it out loud for him, how could I expect that from him? He showed me plenty of love, in what ways were open to him, and I hope I did the same, enough to leave a lasting, positive mark in his life.

I guess the world today is very different than it was hahaha. When I was a kid I could've just runned away and told you straight to your face! But yeah, I understand that, I didn't meant to "blame him", I just meant that you shouldn't blame yourself for what and how it ended. Yes it was heavy for you to say and you couldn't, but he couldn't neither, so in a way you too are sitting in the same boat.

Well, you have to realize Sean didn't understand me. He was a little boy. Very homophopic, as it was, perhaps an identity issues he will struggle for a long time yet to come. But he was starved for attention, for love, for someone to be close with, for intimacy. And I was there. Luck? I say life is messy and you make the best of it or try to, at least.

Shhhh, let me dream a little bit! Either way I still thinking it's beautiful, and I still think it's luck! He sounds lovely either way, and in the end he probably loved you too, you shared that incredible moment together, and that for me sounds just perfect. More than "the best of it" at least.

Sean is an adult now, struggling with life. I'm not sure if I was able to do enough for him - well, in a way, no. We keep in touch, some what, but haven't had the chance to properly meet for a few years.

Sorry to hear that, I guess it happens. At least you guys still keep in touch some what, I haven't talked with the 7yo (I'm tired of calling him that, let's name him Summer) for at least a few years, and haven't seen him in a decade at least. For a while in the start I tried to contact him, tried to talk with him, tell him things (he was the first person I told I was "gay"), he was very sweet but never interested in anything. I was the one messaging every single time, the only one trying. So I just let it die as it should, he only ever messaged me twice after that, and only when he wanted something from me, never to ask how I was doing, to ask if everything was going alright with my life, or anything like that. I still love kid Summer, but kid Summer and adult Summer are different people to me.

No, he's not a young friend anymore, just a friend. But our relationship has fallen to, erm, we're not having such a good time at the moment. It's got nothing to do with boylove or sex, never had sex with him, it's just stuff between adults that difficult. But it's hurts, not getting along with someone I love.

Oh that sounds bad, I hope you're able to settle whatever is going on, people keep it trouble and grudge for so little nowadays, would hate to see it happen with you. (Also very sweet to see you say you love him still, that's what I mean when I say I wanna be in love with someone until the end of days you know, that love lasts forever)

Seems like consensual sex doesn't, even in our society. And loving and sex are not the same. You can love a boy without fucking him, right?

I know it sometimes doens't bring the worse. But sometimes it can, I've heard a lot at least about people that were with pedos back in the day and "realised" later and it destroyed their life in a terrible way, made them think they were dirty, nasty and whatnot. Maybe I just see the bad part of it tho, I mean, in the media we will never see a person talking about how incredible it was to be a with an older guy ig. And yes I know love and sex are not the same, that I can love a boy without having that sort of relationship... But i want to lol, more exactly I don't think I can not to, not when there's that burning passion, when there's that fire, yes I can love boys without being "in love" with them. And I for sure love the boys in my life already. But I want more than that, I need more than that. I want to sleep and cuddle with him on the cold nights. I want to wake up with him on the other side of the bed and look deep into his eyes. I want to be able to kiss his soft lips and hug him freely. I want to be able to love every inch of his body and protect him from everything bad from this world.

Ha! It's wonderful and addictive, much of it is morally questionable, some down right evil. But then again it's just porn. I don't believe looking at a picture can per se hurt anyone.
The perils are in addiction, in not seeing the real world from fantasy, and in production when it's cruel.

See, that's when it gets complicated... I've seen it, I sometimes still see it. And I feel more okay watching it than I do imagining it (I know it doesn't make any sense, don't ask me). But in the end that also hurts a lot, a lot of times end making me feel horrible, like an actual monster for watching something like that. I've more than once deleted everything, deleted tor and went "away" from this world for months, until I couldn't deal with normal life anymore and had to come back. Sometimes I don't even want the porn, I just want to look at beautiful boys and have my tummy butterflies happy for a little while.

Actually let me tell you a little secret. When I was around 14 i think, before shit happened and I realised I was a boylover, (I was a very dumb kid btw) I once found a website with cute boys, I don't know how I found it, or what exactly was my reasoning in my little boy mind. But was a very nice website, it had a gallery of cute little boys from toddlers to teens. And I didn't knew exactly what was that feeling, but it always made me feel something incredible good and bad looking at it. At the time I would every single day (actually every single day btw, not exaggerating) look at the website in the night, just before sleep. And just let everything out. I would just cry for hours and hours. I guess deep down I knew it already the life I was condemned to live. But I would just look at how beautiful they were and cry, I could feel the pain and the love, I could feel my heart shredding into pieces. I could feel the wonderful butterflies. Until I ended so tired I would fall asleep beside a cute boy on my screen. And that would always make me feel better in the next day. Like a little part of me felt peace for a little while.

Not everything. (Can't believe you got me saying this!)
When everything starts to resolve around a single thing, and needs are burried deep, covered with wants we perceive - well...

That still confuses me hahah. I understand that they shouldn't be the only thing in my life. But everything else like I said feels "okay" right now. Other than love everything else is at a good state. So it makes me confused when you say I can't look or search for it. I'm suppose to just wait fall from heavens or something?

... then it might feel like the only way to express our love is to stick a penis in an anus of little kid.
I don't want to say this is you, there's obviously more to you, but it is what our conversation has me thinking about.

I guess I used the words incorrectly. When I say "bum fucking" I don't mean just straight up put my penis into the anus and thats it. I mean everything else involved in that. The love, the relationship, everything. I think I explained it better earlier, but I know there's love without sex. And I have that sort of "love" in my life, and that's fantastic I agree. But I also want to be in love with someone. I want to be crazy in love, I want to have my heart beating fast. I want to look into his eyes and forget the entire world ever exists. I want to be able to kiss his soft lips, smile at him. I want to be able to know everything is okay for a little while. I want all of that, all the passion. And of course, the bum fucking too sure, but the bum fucking is just the result of it, not the reason, not the main goal. What I want is everything else attached much more.

It's not what I'm suggesting. But is your plan to find a singular perfect boy ... then anal sex ... then a family and together forever?

Lol. You could have said it a little better. But yes what I want is to find a singular perfect boy, I want to give him my entire world, I want to be able to love him completely. And yes, a family and a future together would be lovely. I know how impossible that sounds, and I am okay with less of it. But that's what I "Truly want". Sure if doesn't work I would be okay loving someone else in the future, I am not against moving on. But I don't want to think already about that. I want to think right now in a forever future. And if that forever future doesn't happen, that's okay. If there's someone else out there for me that's great. But I don't want to think about how many boys I want or how many boys I can have. I don't want to have them all or any of that nonsense. I just want a single one and I would be happy with it. I just want to be able to love and dream of a future.

Do you mean "sharing" a boy with parents? Your ideal boy is an orphan? But you don't want to be his father?

The way you were saying I thought you meant to share custody of him with someone. Like those people that have "real" or fake relationships just to have a son or adopt one, and that's a big nono for me. I don't want to have this kind of relationship with a little one, yes I wanna be a parent one day, but just a parent and not a parent+lover. And with someone else also could cause tons of problems. I don't mind "sharing" the boy with his parents, everyone has parents and that's a normal thing to have. And I am okay being a more fatherly figure at some extent, I just don't want to be mainly that for him. I want to mainly be his lover, I don't want to abuse that father relationship, neither abuse a boy that is in need of that connection.

I just can't do that -

I don't know why you quoted this? lol

Would you be willing to consider the idea that it's simply something you don't know how to do?

I would say I don't think that's the case, my mind is simply running 24/7, it never stops thinking, questioning, it never stops discussing between itself a million things. And the more tired I get the more loud the thoughts scream. But I am willing to consider I am wrong, but how I would go about doing that then?

We can't, none of us can, change alone. We all need each other.

Sometimes you confuse me hahah

What lovely story! One might say you're lucky to have such boys in your life - even if you don't see him that often.

I still think you're luckier, you have a lot more and some you even have relationships with O.O XD. But yes I do agree I am lucky to have a boy like that in my life. He is just everything...

I'm sure there are some poems of mine floating around here. But the absolute best one, I wrote it about Chap and our summer evening, and that was lost in a crash! :cry

I hope that was a HDD crash and not an actual crash O.O. Don't you remember about it to rewrite? I lost all my early poems I wrote for Summer in one of those "deleting everything from Tor" attemps of mine. I was such a dumb kid, but oh welp, I still wrote more after that at least. I think I mainly and possibly only wrote poems for Summer actually.

No need to be sorry, just want you to consider these different points of view. Put that potato to use!

Trying my best!

... so that you might see it's not an impossible route for you either.

Maybe not impossible, but still a very hard route and path to take. Even more because of the kind of relationship I want.... Ugh what I put myself into sometimes lol

Happy for your tummy

Happy tummy butterflies!

Oooh, he brings up yet another boy!

Hahahah, still not nearly as much as yours! But won't even lie, Luca might be worth it a thousand of yours O.O Oh what I would give to see that little boy smile again.

It's strating to look like a long list!

Oh you don't even know the bulk of it hahahah. It's probably bigger than Santa's naughty list! XD

That's not what you do with boys!

That's what I want to do to boys hahah. What do you do with boys then? XD

I'm glad to have made you smile. Again, it's not luck, it's a way of life. Or in other words it's not some magical inborn quality but something I have grown into.

Untill I can see it myself I will still call it luck! XD. But I hope then it's something I am able to grown into too.

I don't think you have to worry about that here

I guess so. Just a baggage I carry from the "real world". Doing my best to not let that make me change the way I am here. I think it's working good enough!

Alright, that would Greek Love by J.Z. Eglinton. You can find it online, I think.

I had a quick look and wow hahahah. They literally name it a fucking boy-love story straight from the amazon page O.O. Honestly very impressed by it already. I was able to find a copy somewhere, will definitely add to my reading list after the other one you've mentioned. Guess I have homework to do XD.

Bye bye,
and later alligator XD

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.

[Itumeleng]

Hey there 

This time I've got my feet very far away! I won't kick it I promise!

It was my turn anyway. I closed the window when I was half done with my reply. Ah!  Shit happens.

It's not what I'm suggesting. But is your plan to find a singular perfect boy ... then anal sex ... then a family and together forever?

Lol. You could have said it a little better.

I suppose I could have.

You see, this is one of my problems. I get frustrated and then I'm more aggressive than perhaps would be constructive. I'm afraid you'll get some more of that in this reply... And I can only hope I've been able to temper it enough while still getting my point across or trying to.

I feel strongly about the how I see boylovers and about wanting to you to see the same. Perhaps it's not the only way for things to be but at least it's a good way.

In the end we are monsters. We are mindless creatures.

Wow. You really feel terrible about being a boylover

Oh boy... I've fucked badly with this hahahah. I think I explained myself incorrectly and made you answer like half of the stuff incorrectly. Oh welp what can I do.

Missunderstandings are a natural part of a conversation. We're working on an undertanding, a rapport - not magically having one straight from the start. So don't worry!

Rather...

No need to be sorry, just want you to consider these different points of view. Put that potato to use!

Trying my best!

I know! Thank you for your effort!

I think the problem is that then you're mixing it up motive and explanation, which I think just shouldn't be mixed up together in the same thing. Motive is something we utterly know, something that might shape us and make us do things, something that might make us see what's "right" from what's "wrong". Assassins have motives, killers have motives, criminals have motives. Either because they were raised in a society that never teached them what was right and wrong, or because they had to find a way to survive, and even when they knew it was wrong it was the only thing they could've ever done. Either way motive is something that can be changed, something that can be shaped and even be erased in someone's mind, because motive is not something they were born with, it might not exactly be a thing they had a choice on, but in the end it was something laid on them as they grew and as hard that motive might be to crack, in the end is always possible.

I agree on explanations and motives being two different things. But motives can be an explanation for some of the actions people take.

An assassin needs more than the motivation to kill - otherwise we would have much more killers. The reason I don't usually try to resolve my problems with violence is because I think I have better options available or because I think violence is not worth it.

I feel like you're strecthing the word motive a little bit. Things like what's wrong and right I would label under something like "worldview". That's also a part of the who we are yet something I think can change.

But an explanation doesn't work exactly like that. Boylovers, homosexuals and most mind problems too don't have exactly a motive, they never were born out of something people had to endure or were raised into. They never were born out of valors or a "bad life". Those "explanations" are just like the title says, explanations. Yes there might be a reason why we were born boylovers, either evolution or maybe even a joke from a bad God. Gays might have a reason why they were born that way too, but in the end that's the thing. We were born that way. That's what who we always were and who we will always be. Like they did in the camps, sure we can be tamed, sure we can be "teached" to not be a boylover. But in the end that earthshaking feeling you feel when you look into a little boy's eyes can't ever be erased. Because that's the nature of us. That's who we are.

It's a part of who we are. And even within it there's still room for variation.

The way you talk about it sounds like we've been set on a singular, unchanging, sad path the moment we were born.

Of course, you are right - in the sense that we cannot just have everything we want. But nobody gets that.

Don't they tho? I mean, if we were a muggle and raped a woman, we would be given much less hate than we do as boylovers for simply liking little boys. For simply having something suspiscious in your HDD. Even if we never touched, looked or did anything with anyone. So even if we can't have "everything" we want, we always get the shorter end of the stick.

I feel like you're so stuck up on counting these shorter ends of sticks - How can one end of a stick be shorter than the other? - that you don't have time to notice what you already have nor what can yet be.

Of course, you are right - in the sense that I can't straight out answer Apollo with a "I love you" and that's unfair. But live bloody well is unfair.

Again, life as whole might be unfair to most if not everyone of us. But muggles cat call women all the time. They can say the most abussive and suggestive of things to them. How hot they are, how much they wanna fuck them and whatever nonsense those people think. And in the end little to nothing happens with them. We in the other end, like you said, can't even say "I love you" to a little boy. Can't tell them how cute they look, how beatiful they look. Can't even look or smile without people thinking weird things.

I don't know where to start here. Struggling to come up with something that isn't hars.

Let's look at it like this. I think I could probably do a lot of terrible, abusive things to boys without ever being punished for them. I've skirted the outlines and glimpsed at the monster I could be. It's a little scary to be honest.

But that's not who I choose to be - I choice one has to make over again and again, by the way. So I don't see why I should be jealous of "muggles" being shitty - I would much rather call them out on it.

But there certainly is a place for me. People certainly like me. And I get to love my boys. It's good enough a fit.
So, really, you've got it wrong

Im glad you feel like that, I'm glad you have a place you feel comfortable living. I'm glad you are able to love your boys, that you are able to be who you are and be happy with it. But I don't think I've got it wrong if we look at most of us. You're on the lucky 1% that are able to have that. I don't think I have a place for me, people generally don't like me, doesn't matter how hard I try. I am not able to love my boys, and so on and so forth. And that's not a only me thing, is something that happens to most us in the same situation. I'm not saying "you" have a bad life. I'm saying "we" generally speaking have a bad life. (me included lol)

It's not that I want to fight you on how bad it is for MAAs. That you have to build an identity for yourself, speaking of young MAAs here, in a world that constantly keeps telling you what a monster you are - it's just, I don't have the words strong enough for this but it's terrible. It's wrong. And pretty close to an impossible situation, people grow up to deny, to hide and to hate a very important part of themselves. And you can't even ask for help of confide in anyone 'cause they'll simply hate you if you do. How do you grow up happy from that kind of a situation?

But when you say "You're the lucky 1%" I feel like you're taking away my agency - and yours as well. As if my life was just the result of some happy accident or maybe something I inherited... All the while going about shouting to poor people "why don't you pull yourself up by your bootstraps!"

And what I want to say is "It's not impossible." "Turn your eyes to the good that is and to what can yet be."

I don't think you realize how controlled children's lives are, how little freedom, how little agency they have.

I guess the world today is very different than it was hahaha. When I was a kid I could've just runned away and told you straight to your face!

Sounds like anyone expect the current you can do pretty much anything.

Well, you have to realize Sean didn't understand me. He was a little boy. Very homophopic, as it was, perhaps an identity issues he will struggle for a long time yet to come. But he was starved for attention, for love, for someone to be close with, for intimacy. And I was there. Luck? I say life is messy and you make the best of it or try to, at least.

Shhhh, let me dream a little bit! Either way I still thinking it's beautiful, and I still think it's luck! He sounds lovely either way, and in the end he probably loved you too, you shared that incredible moment together, and that for me sounds just perfect. More than "the best of it" at least.

Sounds like I've just had the perfect life.

Sean is an adult now, struggling with life. I'm not sure if I was able to do enough for him - well, in a way, no. We keep in touch, some what, but haven't had the chance to properly meet for a few years.

Sorry to hear that, I guess it happens. At least you guys still keep in touch some what, I haven't talked with the 7yo (I'm tired of calling him that, let's name him Summer) for at least a few years, and haven't seen him in a decade at least.

Sounds like you've always had it worse than me.

These (last three quotes as examples) got me frustrated - sorry about that. I don't want to be mean, I just want to say "Argh, isn't there another way of looking at this?!"

Not everything. (Can't believe you got me saying this!)
When everything starts to resolve around a single thing, and needs are burried deep, covered with wants we perceive - well...

That still confuses me hahah. I understand that they shouldn't be the only thing in my life. But everything else like I said feels "okay" right now. Other than love everything else is at a good state. So it makes me confused when you say I can't look or search for it. I'm suppose to just wait fall from heavens or something?

Didn't I just tell you to try smiling at boys? How's that not looking for a connection with them?

Didn't you just tell me how your friends don't really care for you, how you are lonely and cry yourself to sleep? How's that "at a good state"?

It sounds like you do have problems - and that okay, so, so okay, I like you just the way you are! - and you are the one that's waiting for a boy to fall down from heavens to solve them all.

That's not what you do with boys!

That's what I want to do to boys hahah. What do you do with boys then? XD

I feel like you might be trying to copy how our society has modelled the optimal relationship between a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman. I'm not sure if that's the best option even for the regular vanillas but it certainly isn't good for us.

But yes what I want is to find a singular perfect boy, I want to give him my entire world, I want to be able to love him completely. And yes, a family and a future together would be lovely. I know how impossible that sounds, and I am okay with less of it. But that's what I "Truly want". Sure if doesn't work I would be okay loving someone else in the future, I am not against moving on. But I don't want to think already about that. I want to think right now in a forever future. And if that forever future doesn't happen, that's okay. If there's someone else out there for me that's great. But I don't want to think about how many boys I want or how many boys I can have. I don't want to have them all or any of that nonsense. I just want a single one and I would be happy with it. I just want to be able to love and dream of a future.

Let's say this happens tomorrow. That's a pretty sensible waiting period. I would lock myself in the house so as not to disturb fate. But what about if it's a year from now? Two? Five? A decade?

I feel that if I did lock myself in the house I would most likely avert "fate" and miss out my opportunity to meet that boy.

I'm trying to suggest we live our lives now, love the people we do have in our lives.

I am not a monster, I would never touch a boy without them wanting, never force my way into them or even "incentive" them. Is not that I would do something wrong to someone that is less "precious" to me. But I guess is just a matter of perspective. Those kids I've babysitted I've done since they were babies. I've seen them grown from little mushy things into beautiful boys. I've seen them develop and change. They're like my own kids, and just like my own kids I would never be able to love them like that. I love them but I can't be "in love" with them. That's what I mean when I say they're "too precious" to me. (There's also the fact they're from people I know, I don't think I could ever sleep with the son of a friend of mine, I could never look at his face straight, and I for sure could never have a future with the boy, marry or whatnot)

But it's different when it is a boy i've seen around, when it's a boy I haven't know since he was born. When it's a boy I don't know his parents, don't have any relation to. When it's a boy I can be more than just a father figure, when it's a boy I can see face to face and talk about things. For example bringing back my boylover dream (Christian Convery), if I were to meet a boy like that, I would be more okay meeting him, talking to him and being with him. Yes I would still have to approach him, meet his parents and whatnot. But it's just different I guess. When I can look a boy in his eyes and be able to see who he is unattached from everything else. There's no underneath father love (because I've not seen him grow), there's no other strings (because I am not a friend with his parents yet), he doesn't see me as someone he has grown into loving already (because i haven't taken care of him since he was a baby). It's like the closest of a real "adult" relationship it can get, and I think that's what I want and what I feel more comfortable with. I want to have something real with someone real, I don't wanna abuse them because I can, use them because they already "love" me in a way. I wanna grow that love, deserve that love, I want passion, something real.

This leaves me with a lot of questions. Didn't we just agree that there's a paternal component to boyloving - now you want love absolutely devoid of that? Why does parental love somehow taint sexual love? And if you did end up fucking with one of your friend's kids why would that be worse than with Christian Convery? Do you think you have better chances marrying him? Why do you want "a real adult" relationship when you are in fact a boylover? How is that somehow more real? I feel like I could go on forever here...

No, he's not a young friend anymore, just a friend. But our relationship has fallen to, erm, we're not having such a good time at the moment. It's got nothing to do with boylove or sex, never had sex with him, it's just stuff between adults that difficult. But it's hurts, not getting along with someone I love.

Oh that sounds bad, I hope you're able to settle whatever is going on, people keep it trouble and grudge for so little nowadays, would hate to see it happen with you. (Also very sweet to see you say you love him still, that's what I mean when I say I wanna be in love with someone until the end of days you know, that love lasts forever)

I'm not in love with him - I never was. But I do love him.

See, that's when it gets complicated... I've seen it, I sometimes still see it. And I feel more okay watching it than I do imagining it (I know it doesn't make any sense, don't ask me). But in the end that also hurts a lot, a lot of times end making me feel horrible, like an actual monster for watching something like that.

I don't think you're a monster for watching boyporn. At least you masturbate, yeah? I was worried at one point that you might have no outlet for your sexuality. But I would recommend masturbating without porn, too, and getting used to freely using your imagination. I am sure you view CP as morally more questionable than your own, private thoughts.

Would you be willing to consider the idea that it's simply something you don't know how to do?

I would say I don't think that's the case, my mind is simply running 24/7, it never stops thinking, questioning, it never stops discussing between itself a million things. And the more tired I get the more loud the thoughts scream. But I am willing to consider I am wrong, but how I would go about doing that then?

I left the other "I cannot" quotation to stand in for all the other times you said that. But if just talking about meditation here, have you had any training in that? The way you talk it sounds like you've tried but may not know what to do.

We can't, none of us can, change alone. We all need each other.

Sometimes you confuse me hahah

Oh, how? Can you help me communicate better 

I'm sure there are some poems of mine floating around here. But the absolute best one, I wrote it about Chap and our summer evening, and that was lost in a crash! :cry

I hope that was a HDD crash and not an actual crash O.O. Don't you remember about it to rewrite?

It was a PSC outage, we lost some posts at one point, and unfortunately that was one of them. Unfortunately it was not something I could just make anew.


Alright, that's it I hope it was alright in the end 

Take care 

Itu

[DarkRedComet]

Heeeyy!!! Missed you XD

It was my turn anyway. I closed the window when I was half done with my reply. Ah!  Shit happens.

Awwww, sorry to hear that, that's super annoying, but oh welp, life I guess.

You see, this is one of my problems. I get frustrated and then I'm more aggressive than perhaps would be constructive. I'm afraid you'll get some more of that in this reply... And I can only hope I've been able to temper it enough while still getting my point across or trying to.

Sorry if I frustated you, was never my plan. What exactly got you frustrated tho? The way I envision boys and relationships? Or something else I've said? Either way don't worry about it too much, I'm a big boy I can take it! (oh no that sounded better in my head O.O) At least it shows how passionate you are about those things and how important they are to you too.

I feel strongly about the how I see boylovers and about wanting to you to see the same. Perhaps it's not the only way for things to be but at least it's a good way.

I understand the way you see boys and boy-boylover relationships. Is not that I'm blind to it or anything. For you is about that connection, is about that moment. Is about teaching them, loving them and supporting them. Is about being there for them for when they need them. But also about letting go when it's time to let it go. Is about letting life move on and keep going. Is about helping the most you can I guess.

The thing is, I don't think I see it that way, maybe I never will, maybe I will one day, I don't know. But for me, at least right now, is very different. Is about loving them more anything else in the world. Is about giving up my life for them. Is about loving every minute and every second. Is about growing and changing with them. Is about dreaming of a future together. I want to dive deep into that love until I can't see the surface. I want to feel that feeling every moment I breath. I want to give him the moon and the stars just for a smile. I want to feel like it'll be forever, even if it can't be.

I agree on explanations and motives being two different things. But motives can be an explanation for some of the actions people take.
An assassin needs more than the motivation to kill - otherwise we would have much more killers. The reason I don't usually try to resolve my problems with violence is because I think I have better options available or because I think violence is not worth it.
I feel like you're strecthing the word motive a little bit. Things like what's wrong and right I would label under something like "worldview". That's also a part of the who we are yet something I think can change.

I probably am stretching the word a little bit yes. But that is also what I was talking about. An assassin needs more than just a motivation, most people even if they have that motivation don't do anything wrong. Because they know that is bad. They know there's better ways to deal with things. They have learned that and apply it in life. An assassin motives can be changed and shaped, can be tamed ore even made forget, because it just wasn't there from the beggining. It might be a part of them now, but wasn't always there. In the way it comes it goes.

It's a part of who we are. And even within it there's still room for variation.
The way you talk about it sounds like we've been set on a singular, unchanging, sad path the moment we were born.

But us, yes, it as a part of who we are. It has always been a part of who we are. And it will always be a part of who we are. It is something that can't be erased from us. That it can't be changed. It is our deep truth. We love boys. Yes we are a thousand more things than that. But that is one of them.

I never said it was a sad path, as much as it might seen sometimes. What I meant to say is that it just is something that can't ever be erased or removed from us. But that is a good thing! As much it can be at least, I struggle a lot still with being a boylover as you might have seen, but I don't think I could survive in this world without it. Is what makes me wake up everyday. What makes me dream of a better future. And the fact that that is something that was always with me and will always be with me is a good thing. Because I know deep down it's okay. I know deep down it wasn't my choice. And I know deep down I can't change that. So I am trying my best to accept it.

I feel like you're so stuck up on counting these shorter ends of sticks - How can one end of a stick be shorter than the other? - that you don't have time to notice what you already have nor what can yet be.

I won't even say that I am not, because yes I am. I am a rather negative person, Im trying my best to not only look at the negative sides, but it's just very hard sometimes. Is just that the world is so unfair with us when we want simply to be happy. We want simply their happiness. We just want to see their smile and their giggle. Yet we are treated this way. It just makes me very sad and angry to think about. Makes me think I've done something horrible to deserve it. Yet the only thing I want is to do good. Do good for them. It just breaks my heart you know. Makes me think we deserve so much more.

Let's look at it like this. I think I could probably do a lot of terrible, abusive things to boys without ever being punished for them. I've skirted the outlines and glimpsed at the monster I could be. It's a little scary to be honest.

First of all, you woud never do anything like that, you're a good person and I know that. But t is not the horrible terrible things you could do with the boys that they care about. Feck people do that everyday, parents hurt their kids, abuse them, even kill them. And they just do nothing about it. But the moment we set ourself to help them, to love them and give them a life they deserve. We are the monsters. We are the ones treated like animals. And that's just something hard to take in. Hard to look and just ignore.

But that's not who I choose to be - I choice one has to make over again and again, by the way. So I don't see why I should be jealous of "muggles" being shitty - I would much rather call them out on it.

I never said you should be jealous of them for being shitty. I just wish we could have the same rights they have. I just wish we could look a boy in the eyes and tell them how much we love them. Tell them how much they mean to us. I used them being bad as an example. How can they do horrible things and be okay with it. And when we do things with our heart and just want to love and help it isn't okay? Yet again, just hard to take in. Just hard to ignore and look away.

I's not that I want to fight you on how bad it is for MAAs. That you have to build an identity for yourself, speaking of young MAAs here, in a world that constantly keeps telling you what a monster you are - it's just, I don't have the words strong enough for this but it's terrible. It's wrong. And pretty close to an impossible situation, people grow up to deny, to hide and to hate a very important part of themselves. And you can't even ask for help of confide in anyone 'cause they'll simply hate you if you do. How do you grow up happy from that kind of a situation?

Then you can see how and why is hard for me too. Sometimes I just don't wanna wake up. Sometimes I just don't wanna get up and face the world. Sometimes I just don't wanna fight. Yes I want to be happy. I want to be okay with it. I want to be who I am. But it sometimes is just too much for me and I just fall.

But when you say "You're the lucky 1%" I feel like you're taking away my agency - and yours as well. As if my life was just the result of some happy accident or maybe something I inherited... All the while going about shouting to poor people "why don't you pull yourself up by your bootstraps!"

Im sorry. I never meant to say you didn't deserve or worked for what you have now. I'm sure you have, and I'm sure it was a lot and hard. I guess it's sometimes just hard to look and believe. Sometimes is hard for me to believe in a future that I can be happy. I just can't really see that. Is hard for me to see a path, what to do to achieve that. And sometimes is just easier to look up and say you got lucky than to believe I can be there too. I want to believe I can have that, I want to believe It isn't just luck. But I am just not there yet. Is just something I don't believe yet. I want to. But I don't. So when I say you're lucky, it isn't to make you feel bad. It is for me to feel less bad about myself. Because the other options is that I am not trying enough. Not fighting enough. And I am doing my best and it's so hard already.

And what I want to say is "It's not impossible." "Turn your eyes to the good that is and to what can yet be."

I "know" it is not impossibe. But like I said, it's just hard to believe in it.

Sounds like anyone expect the current you can do pretty much anything.

I don't know exactly what you meant with this?

Sounds like I've just had the perfect life.

Nothing is perfect in this world. Guess I just wanted you to see how good it was. I'm sure you do. I just see a lot of people brushing on top of those things like it isn't a big deal. But it is, every person in your life is important and a big deal. Every relationship is important and a big deal. I just wanted you to look back as something amazing and incredible you felt and experienced. Because that's how I feel about every single boy i've loved at least. And I think that's an powerful and important feeling to have.

Sounds like you've always had it worse than me.

Maybe I've had, maybe I haven't. Doesn't matter in the end, everyone lives their own life. Never meant to say I've had it worse than you or anything like that. I guess sometimes I just want someone to hear it and pat my head. Someone to hug me and tell me it'll be okay. To tell me things are gonna get better.

These (last three quotes as examples) got me frustrated - sorry about that. I don't want to be mean, I just want to say "Argh, isn't there another way of looking at this?!"

I'm sure there is. And I'm sure the way I look into things isn't great. I won't say I can't or won't change it like the other times. Is something that I really want to change. Is just something that I don't really know how to change about myself. I want to look into life and see the good things. I want to look into the future and see a happy life. I just don't know how to do that. I want to believe in a future, in hard work and not in luck. I just don't yet. I want to believe is not impossibe. But still feel like it is.

Didn't I just tell you to try smiling at boys? How's that not looking for a connection with them?

I tried!!! I told you in the other post! And I guess it is looking for a connection with them. I just never saw it like that. Yes looking and smiling at a boy makes me happy. It might make him happy. But for me that was it. I've never thought about being looking for a connection or anything like that. Most boys I see only once and never again.

Didn't you just tell me how your friends don't really care for you, how you are lonely and cry yourself to sleep? How's that "at a good state"?

They might not care that much for me but I care for them. And that I guess is enough for me. They might not be the best, they might not be what I deserve. But they're still my friends and important to me. Yes I wish it was better. Of course I wish. But it could be worse too and it isn't. I'm actively working on trying to be better. But there's nothing much else I can do about that than try to do my best on my end. Yes I feel lonely and cry myself to sleep. But I've done that since I was like 14 or so. Since I found out I like boys my heart grew a blackhole in it.

It sounds like you do have problems - and that okay, so, so okay, I like you just the way you are! - and you are the one that's waiting for a boy to fall down from heavens to solve them all.

Thanks for liking me the way I am. Haven't heard many people say that. And I guess you're right. But also, yes I do want that. I don't think a boy will magically fix everything. But it could help a lot I'm sure.

I feel like you might be trying to copy how our society has modelled the optimal relationship between a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman. I'm not sure if that's the best option even for the regular vanillas but it certainly isn't good for us.

I probably am yes. Since I was like 10? I've dreamed of a relationship like that. First with girls until I noticed I didn't liked girls. Then with other boys my age until I noticed that was also not exactly what I wanted. So it's just been always what I dreamed. And I don't know if I can let go of that. I know the problems that might cause. And I know it probably won't happen. But I am okay taking it one day at a time. I am okay loving a boy just for what it is. I'm okay with the fact one day he might grow up and not want me anymore. I might act like a irrational kid but I am not. I just simply dream a little bit too big. And dream that one of them might not do that. That one of them might want me after growing up, and that I will too. And I'm ready to face that path if so it happens. But if doesn't, a life with boys doesn't sound terrible to me neither.

Let's say this happens tomorrow. That's a pretty sensible waiting period. I would lock myself in the house so as not to disturb fate. But what about if it's a year from now? Two? Five? A decade?
I feel that if I did lock myself in the house I would most likely avert "fate" and miss out my opportunity to meet that boy.
I'm trying to suggest we live our lives now, love the people we do have in our lives.

I think you might have misunderstood me, because that is literally what I said XD. I'm okay living my life right now, and seeing what it has to offer! But I will keep dreaming of a bigger future. I am okay trying with boys, and taking one day at a time. I'm okay knowing they might one day grow up and not want it anymore. But I also dream that one won't. That's just what I mean with all of this.

This leaves me with a lot of questions. Didn't we just agree that there's a paternal component to boyloving - now you want love absolutely devoid of that? Why does parental love somehow taint sexual love? And if you did end up fucking with one of your friend's kids why would that be worse than with Christian Convery? Do you think you have better chances marrying him? Why do you want "a real adult" relationship when you are in fact a boylover? How is that somehow more real? I feel like I could go on forever here...

Yes we agreed that there is a paternal component to boyloving, I'm not going agains't that or anything.I guess I'm just afraid. I'm afraid that the boy will be "confused" about that parental love, I don't want to abuse that power we can have on them I guess. It just feels... unfair? It feels abusive I guess.

About the being a parent part. I want to be a Dad one day (adopt one day or whatever). And I don't want to have sex with my own kids, I don't think that's correct for the reasons already stated. But also with the fact they're your own kids, and that could mess up with their heads a lot in the future I think.

Why being with my friends kids would be worse than Chris.... Well firstly Christian is HOT AF ( I'm kidding, but it's true! XD). I just guess I am afraid. With a kid I already have a relationship built. There is already trust built. There is already that parental connection built. I feel like if it ever went sexual the boy would never be against it... And that scares me. I want them to want and need as much as I do. I want it to be real and important to them. I don't want to use them or abuse them. I also love them like my own kids. And that's also very hard to get past it.

And yes I do think being with an "non" friend boy would be easier to one day get married in the future. But is much more than that too. If you ever fuck it up (or even if you don't and the boy just tell them or they get suspicious) you don't only lose a boy that you love more than anything. You lose friends that you also love and care about. You lose people that you trusted and that trusted in you. And also possibly a whole group of friends. The risks involved are a thousand times higher.

I'm not in love with him - I never was. But I do love him.

You not being in love with him I understand. But you never were in love with him? That kinda caught me off guard. I thought you were in love with him for a little bit. Could you tell me a little bit more about it if you can? That sounds actually interesting for me to understand how that feels to you.

I don't think you're a monster for watching boyporn. At least you masturbate, yeah? I was worried at one point that you might have no outlet for your sexuality. But I would recommend masturbating without porn, too, and getting used to freely using your imagination. I am sure you view CP as morally more questionable than your own, private thoughts.

I am a lot more okay with it than I was in the past, but it's still something rather hard to deal with it. Sometimes I just can't deal with the real world anymore and I need to see a little boy you know... Sometimes I can't deal with my own head and even if I want I just can't do it. And yes CP is morally more questionable than my own thoughts. I guess it just feels different? For CP I'm never thinking or imagining someone I know. So is easier to deal with it, because I can see the happiness in the boy, and I can see it's not hurting him. When it's imagination.... well it needs to be someone I know, and that makes it a thousand times harder. Even more if is someone I see often. What do you do when you seem them again? When you know you had those thoughts about them in your head?

I left the other "I cannot" quotation to stand in for all the other times you said that. But if just talking about meditation here, have you had any training in that? The way you talk it sounds like you've tried but may not know what to do.

I understand it. Yeah I say that a lot, sorry about that. It's just how it feels to me sometimes. About the meditation, no I never had any training, no idea where to even start I guess. I've tried those youtube guided meditations before but they were always not really great. Either I felt asleep or my mind refused to shut up.

Oh, how? Can you help me communicate better 

I guess sometimes you tell me that I need to do stuff by myself. Be by myself and whatnot. Other times you tell me we need each other and we can only change with someone by our side. It's confusing.

It was a PSC outage, we lost some posts at one point, and unfortunately that was one of them. Unfortunately it was not something I could just make anew.

That's terrible! Sorry to hear that. And yes I do understand it. I wasn never able to recreate mines neither, it happens I guess. Best we can do is move on and keep writing them. Keep making them (and make sure they're safe somewhere!)

Alright, that's it I hope it was alright in the end 

It was all good. I know you mean everything well, that's what matters!

I hope I can see you soon! Make sure you don't close the tab this time heheh

Later Itu.

Foreverboy DarkRedComet.